Im looking to create a SPL setup in my car, i currently have a JBL BP1200.1 and 3 solobarics, Unfortunatly ive grown bored of this. Im going to sell my sony xm-2000r reference amp to fund my new SPL system (was in my SQ car for obvious reasons). The amp im looking at is the new JBL BPX2200.1. Subs im not sure what to go for. Here is the dilemma THINK where i live nothing can be on show else it will be gone within about 30 secconds. My car is a small - Medium hatch. So im looking at either 3 x 12" 2 x 15" or 1 x 18". For subs im budgiting my self at upto $1250. Any advice would be appreciated. GRIN
Regards
Dan
Replies (23)
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:24:38
Wow, you don't need that much power.
I say do 2 15's cause that will be more cone area, put them in a nice large ported box, the biggest you can make it.
And if this is for competition, then tune it to your vehicles resonant freq, and you should have one hell of a system in competition depending on the install ofcourse, you said a small hatch, which means easy cabin and small amount of internal air space so it can be preassurized easier.
but, is this for a comp. system only, or street bumpin
xplicitblitzboi on 06/5/2003 20:27:57
look into elemental designs, onyx audio, adire isnt as reliable as they used to be, ask ilikebass. and of course you can never forget JL, a couple w7s would do anyone good. some of cerwin vega's older stuff will sound real good in that hatch of yours.
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:28:31
it is for a bit of street bumpin but mainly comps, but SQ isnt a major issue as i have my seccod car for that. Shame the XM-2000r has got to go though, i loved the amp the only problem is its class A and veryy inefficient, in competitions ive blown my 200amp trip switch with it!!!
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:31:22
im in the UK do u have Fusion Audio over in the US? if so how do you rate it? I was looking at either that or DD possibly, MTX RFL any good?
link to fusion products https://www.edworthys.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Subwoofers.html
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:36:34
on the old club knowledge site there was a way of searching the topics can this be done if so where is the link now?
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:32:00
well, then i would go with a pair of 15"s in a Large ported box, like i said the biggest you can make it. And a pair of sub's with High Power Handling and High efficiency. Remeber to tune to the car's resonant otherwise you could lose allot of extra db that you could have had.
I would check out, Orion HCCA's the new versions called the H2 ,
I would look at Image Dynamic's ID MAX's.
And i WOULD definatly take a look at DD9915's.
These would all fair well at a comp. But the DD's were made for such a reason, and they still sound pretty good for being all out SPL woofers.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:37:28
stay away from the RFL completely.
They sound like Garbage, and if you are gonna listen to it other than at a comp, it won't be pleasent, the RFL was made soley for competition.
Well, everything is going to sound pretty bad when it is in a large HIGH tuned ported box. which is what you will have for a sub box, but you could try making a box with a swappable port to change the freq's when you wanted to street bump or comp. burp.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:40:18
the fusions, are made for SQ/SPL, they won't get as loud as the DD's if they were given the same optimal setup. the DD's have more SD so they would move more air.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:41:53
But, check out those other sub's as well. But in your case with competition, i know from personal experience a DD 9515 get's loud as hell and can take allot of abuse and power.
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:42:31
cheers all, i think im going to have to look at a pair of DDs do you have any idea how much these monsters retail at? Will the single JBL amp be enough for them as they can handel 1200 watts RMS a piece if not do you have any other suggestions for a amp.
Is there much difference between the 9515 and the 9915 subs apert from 300watts? what about price etc.
should anyone else have a opinion using any othe products please post your opinion (as long as it doesnt include a 3000Watt boss amp lol)
thanks again
dan
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:47:14
lol, BOSS, no way , Pyramid is where it's at, lol.
No i think the JBL will be suffiecent enough. You must remember RMS ratings are not suggested power . It is a thermal rating, and is HIGHLY effected depending on the box you use. A small sealed will need more power to drive the subwoofer to X-max and it's mechanical limits, where as a Large Ported box which is what you want ( with allot of Port area BTW ) will need far less power to go to it's limits, but at a competition , you will be doing burps so the woofer can take a little more power that way, be sure to do them in like 3 seconds a sine wave then let the woofer cool after each 3 second burp, delay the sine wav on the cd you are using to let the woofer cool for like 10-15 seconds, then hit it again. This will prolomg the life of the woofer, and your bank account SMILE
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:53:16
im glad to see this forum hasnt died a death since my last purchase. It has goto be one of the best forums on the net.
cheers again.
Ohh any ideas on price etc?
Relax_The_Mind on 06/6/2003 12:25:34
There are many subs out there the yeild very high spl but I am not sure that you can get the best out of them with such a small area and 2-15". Bigger isnt always louder given car size and box space. Here are '2 cents' that I think can help you.
a. SPL is going to depend highly on your box design. I mean moving an angle or wall an inch can make a huge difference. (flexing is very very bad)
b. Have a backup of broken in sub/subs in case u happen to get cocky in a comp. (having an spl setup tends to have a higher number of blown subs). Real easy access to be able to swap subs out.
c. Since there is a port you can possibly make it removable so that you can have a sound quality port also.
d. Map out all of your tuning levels when you do test runs.
e. IMPORTANT! Keep your gain down when not competing... myself and others have blown subs getting 'volume happy'.
All the 2 cents I could think of. I cant really think of any good new subs out there that I know of besides the Lightning Audio Storm series. ;-)
RTM
Swez on 06/7/2003 18:45:17
Here's a very potent sub for car applications:
http://www.jbl.com/car/product.asp?prod=W15GTI&ser=GTI&cat=SUB
Larger View
Resources Boxes and Parameters (PDF)
Boxes and Parameters (PDF)
Owner's Manual (PDF)/ Owner Registration
Specifications Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83V/1m
Power Handling: 800W RMS, 5,000W Peak
Impedance: 3 or 12 ohms
Frequency Response: 16Hz ~ 1kHz
Voice-Coil Diameter: 3" (76mm)
Mounting Depth: 10-1/4" (260mm)
Overall Diameter: 5-1/4" (388mm)
Cut-Out Diameter: 13-7/8" (353mm)
Displacement: 0.174 ft3 (4.93 l)
Not cheap, but built on the same platform used in Pro Sound reinforcement applications, but smaller boxes can be used for car applications. Note these are 3/6/12 DVC drivers, but very good efficiency ratings too. (89dB SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) These are High SPL subs that offer above aver SQ performance too.
The DD's are very nice as well and should be a good choice as are E-designs.
Have you check out the 15" Brahma series from Adire? These are mungo bass drivers and can be used in several enclosure designs. Each driver is rated at 1600 RMS thermally, but 1200 RMS in a ported box will make them dump out lots of bass.
http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/brahma_series.htm
Have a look,
Swez
-dan- on 06/7/2003 20:52:46
cheers swez, i did look at the JBL's before but there is allready a couple of cars in my area with these and i wanted something a little different. However i will look at the adires.
cheers again
Swez on 06/8/2003 07:54:33
Sound good dan, Cheers to you too!
JBL is very rock solid gear... but it seems as though you want to break away from the pack? Adire will definitely give you that! I doupt to that any in the UK have heard of the Brahma, buy guys love em here for SQ and they get loud as well.
You may have to speak (e-mail) with customer service about shipping options to the UK however. Review the manual and other data off the site as well. A wealth of technical and application details to be found there.
Swez
Relax_The_Mind on 06/8/2003 17:03:05
someone be nice and send me a free brahma. i just want to test it out. hehe ill send it back i promise.
swez? anyone?
Swez on 06/8/2003 17:17:44
Sure, will do man... as soon as I get my free pair, I'll share one with you. (rolls eyes) Should not be too hard to get a free one from Adire too! (evil plan)
They'll send you a free one too. If you give them ~$525.00 to cover shipping, insurance and handling, you can get one " for free too".
Hehe... sorry RTM... could not resist chidding you on this one. Yes, I'd like one too, but these are a bit out of a family man's budget. Oh well....
Swez GRIN
-dan- on 06/9/2003 19:44:27
cheers all im fairly confident im going to invest in a pair of DD's they seem like the best option and ive run the specs on WinISD and they seem to come out pritty well.
-dan- on 06/9/2003 21:08:21
I know ive goto tune the box as close to the resonant frequency of the car as possible(correct me if im wrong) to gain the highest SPL. I believe this is around 60-65Hz??? how can i measure this and do i tune the box to the exact frequency?
Also in WinISD is the Gain window more important or the SPL window, does anyone have knowledge of this program and could they please advise me?
Ohh a question i asked earlier i guess it got missed, can you search posts on this forum, if so how??
cheers (again)
dan
dflock on 06/10/2003 09:35:28
Dan,
You may have to wait a bit for the Brahma. I ordered a 12" Brahma 21 Days ago, and it's still on back order directly through AdireAudio.com. What a bummer!
But I can't wait to hear it!
-dan- on 06/10/2003 13:33:31
Let me know how you get on with it, should bi interesting as to the SQ and what kind of SPL you achieve. Are you going for SPL or SQ.
Ohh and if anyone has a answer to my previous question any help is appreciated
regards
dan
dflock on 06/11/2003 09:03:08
Dan,
I'm putting the Brahma in a 1.2 cf enclosed box. A pre-made one by Sub Zero Enclosures. It should sound nice, I want SQ over SPL and will be running the 12" off a Hifonics Hercules Generation XI Class D amp. Amp rates itself at 1500w RMS x 1 at 1ohm. I won't need that much power, nor would I be able to get it with my stock electrical system. But a good 1000watts RMS would be nice.
Regards
Dan
Replies (23)
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:24:38
Wow, you don't need that much power.
I say do 2 15's cause that will be more cone area, put them in a nice large ported box, the biggest you can make it.
And if this is for competition, then tune it to your vehicles resonant freq, and you should have one hell of a system in competition depending on the install ofcourse, you said a small hatch, which means easy cabin and small amount of internal air space so it can be preassurized easier.
but, is this for a comp. system only, or street bumpin
xplicitblitzboi on 06/5/2003 20:27:57
look into elemental designs, onyx audio, adire isnt as reliable as they used to be, ask ilikebass. and of course you can never forget JL, a couple w7s would do anyone good. some of cerwin vega's older stuff will sound real good in that hatch of yours.
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:28:31
it is for a bit of street bumpin but mainly comps, but SQ isnt a major issue as i have my seccod car for that. Shame the XM-2000r has got to go though, i loved the amp the only problem is its class A and veryy inefficient, in competitions ive blown my 200amp trip switch with it!!!
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:31:22
im in the UK do u have Fusion Audio over in the US? if so how do you rate it? I was looking at either that or DD possibly, MTX RFL any good?
link to fusion products https://www.edworthys.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_Subwoofers.html
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:36:34
on the old club knowledge site there was a way of searching the topics can this be done if so where is the link now?
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:32:00
well, then i would go with a pair of 15"s in a Large ported box, like i said the biggest you can make it. And a pair of sub's with High Power Handling and High efficiency. Remeber to tune to the car's resonant otherwise you could lose allot of extra db that you could have had.
I would check out, Orion HCCA's the new versions called the H2 ,
I would look at Image Dynamic's ID MAX's.
And i WOULD definatly take a look at DD9915's.
These would all fair well at a comp. But the DD's were made for such a reason, and they still sound pretty good for being all out SPL woofers.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:37:28
stay away from the RFL completely.
They sound like Garbage, and if you are gonna listen to it other than at a comp, it won't be pleasent, the RFL was made soley for competition.
Well, everything is going to sound pretty bad when it is in a large HIGH tuned ported box. which is what you will have for a sub box, but you could try making a box with a swappable port to change the freq's when you wanted to street bump or comp. burp.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:40:18
the fusions, are made for SQ/SPL, they won't get as loud as the DD's if they were given the same optimal setup. the DD's have more SD so they would move more air.
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:41:53
But, check out those other sub's as well. But in your case with competition, i know from personal experience a DD 9515 get's loud as hell and can take allot of abuse and power.
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:42:31
cheers all, i think im going to have to look at a pair of DDs do you have any idea how much these monsters retail at? Will the single JBL amp be enough for them as they can handel 1200 watts RMS a piece if not do you have any other suggestions for a amp.
Is there much difference between the 9515 and the 9915 subs apert from 300watts? what about price etc.
should anyone else have a opinion using any othe products please post your opinion (as long as it doesnt include a 3000Watt boss amp lol)
thanks again
dan
ILikeBass on 06/5/2003 20:47:14
lol, BOSS, no way , Pyramid is where it's at, lol.
No i think the JBL will be suffiecent enough. You must remember RMS ratings are not suggested power . It is a thermal rating, and is HIGHLY effected depending on the box you use. A small sealed will need more power to drive the subwoofer to X-max and it's mechanical limits, where as a Large Ported box which is what you want ( with allot of Port area BTW ) will need far less power to go to it's limits, but at a competition , you will be doing burps so the woofer can take a little more power that way, be sure to do them in like 3 seconds a sine wave then let the woofer cool after each 3 second burp, delay the sine wav on the cd you are using to let the woofer cool for like 10-15 seconds, then hit it again. This will prolomg the life of the woofer, and your bank account SMILE
-dan- on 06/5/2003 20:53:16
im glad to see this forum hasnt died a death since my last purchase. It has goto be one of the best forums on the net.
cheers again.
Ohh any ideas on price etc?
Relax_The_Mind on 06/6/2003 12:25:34
There are many subs out there the yeild very high spl but I am not sure that you can get the best out of them with such a small area and 2-15". Bigger isnt always louder given car size and box space. Here are '2 cents' that I think can help you.
a. SPL is going to depend highly on your box design. I mean moving an angle or wall an inch can make a huge difference. (flexing is very very bad)
b. Have a backup of broken in sub/subs in case u happen to get cocky in a comp. (having an spl setup tends to have a higher number of blown subs). Real easy access to be able to swap subs out.
c. Since there is a port you can possibly make it removable so that you can have a sound quality port also.
d. Map out all of your tuning levels when you do test runs.
e. IMPORTANT! Keep your gain down when not competing... myself and others have blown subs getting 'volume happy'.
All the 2 cents I could think of. I cant really think of any good new subs out there that I know of besides the Lightning Audio Storm series. ;-)
RTM
Swez on 06/7/2003 18:45:17
Here's a very potent sub for car applications:
http://www.jbl.com/car/product.asp?prod=W15GTI&ser=GTI&cat=SUB
Larger View
Resources Boxes and Parameters (PDF)
Boxes and Parameters (PDF)
Owner's Manual (PDF)/ Owner Registration
Specifications Sensitivity: 92dB @ 2.83V/1m
Power Handling: 800W RMS, 5,000W Peak
Impedance: 3 or 12 ohms
Frequency Response: 16Hz ~ 1kHz
Voice-Coil Diameter: 3" (76mm)
Mounting Depth: 10-1/4" (260mm)
Overall Diameter: 5-1/4" (388mm)
Cut-Out Diameter: 13-7/8" (353mm)
Displacement: 0.174 ft3 (4.93 l)
Not cheap, but built on the same platform used in Pro Sound reinforcement applications, but smaller boxes can be used for car applications. Note these are 3/6/12 DVC drivers, but very good efficiency ratings too. (89dB SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) These are High SPL subs that offer above aver SQ performance too.
The DD's are very nice as well and should be a good choice as are E-designs.
Have you check out the 15" Brahma series from Adire? These are mungo bass drivers and can be used in several enclosure designs. Each driver is rated at 1600 RMS thermally, but 1200 RMS in a ported box will make them dump out lots of bass.
http://www.adireaudio.com/mobile_audio/drivers/brahma_series.htm
Have a look,
Swez
-dan- on 06/7/2003 20:52:46
cheers swez, i did look at the JBL's before but there is allready a couple of cars in my area with these and i wanted something a little different. However i will look at the adires.
cheers again
Swez on 06/8/2003 07:54:33
Sound good dan, Cheers to you too!
JBL is very rock solid gear... but it seems as though you want to break away from the pack? Adire will definitely give you that! I doupt to that any in the UK have heard of the Brahma, buy guys love em here for SQ and they get loud as well.
You may have to speak (e-mail) with customer service about shipping options to the UK however. Review the manual and other data off the site as well. A wealth of technical and application details to be found there.
Swez
Relax_The_Mind on 06/8/2003 17:03:05
someone be nice and send me a free brahma. i just want to test it out. hehe ill send it back i promise.
swez? anyone?
Swez on 06/8/2003 17:17:44
Sure, will do man... as soon as I get my free pair, I'll share one with you. (rolls eyes) Should not be too hard to get a free one from Adire too! (evil plan)
They'll send you a free one too. If you give them ~$525.00 to cover shipping, insurance and handling, you can get one " for free too".
Hehe... sorry RTM... could not resist chidding you on this one. Yes, I'd like one too, but these are a bit out of a family man's budget. Oh well....
Swez GRIN
-dan- on 06/9/2003 19:44:27
cheers all im fairly confident im going to invest in a pair of DD's they seem like the best option and ive run the specs on WinISD and they seem to come out pritty well.
-dan- on 06/9/2003 21:08:21
I know ive goto tune the box as close to the resonant frequency of the car as possible(correct me if im wrong) to gain the highest SPL. I believe this is around 60-65Hz??? how can i measure this and do i tune the box to the exact frequency?
Also in WinISD is the Gain window more important or the SPL window, does anyone have knowledge of this program and could they please advise me?
Ohh a question i asked earlier i guess it got missed, can you search posts on this forum, if so how??
cheers (again)
dan
dflock on 06/10/2003 09:35:28
Dan,
You may have to wait a bit for the Brahma. I ordered a 12" Brahma 21 Days ago, and it's still on back order directly through AdireAudio.com. What a bummer!
But I can't wait to hear it!
-dan- on 06/10/2003 13:33:31
Let me know how you get on with it, should bi interesting as to the SQ and what kind of SPL you achieve. Are you going for SPL or SQ.
Ohh and if anyone has a answer to my previous question any help is appreciated
regards
dan
dflock on 06/11/2003 09:03:08
Dan,
I'm putting the Brahma in a 1.2 cf enclosed box. A pre-made one by Sub Zero Enclosures. It should sound nice, I want SQ over SPL and will be running the 12" off a Hifonics Hercules Generation XI Class D amp. Amp rates itself at 1500w RMS x 1 at 1ohm. I won't need that much power, nor would I be able to get it with my stock electrical system. But a good 1000watts RMS would be nice.
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