The Vision:
Self install of a great sounding, SQ based system that will make a hard rock fan want to listen to classical because it sounds soo good.
The Reality:
I'm a cheap schmough in the DFW area who happened to get his greasy hands on an Alpine CDA-7863 HU, and an Xtant 404m 4 channel x 100W @ 2 ohm amp and has $300 left to go. I've got a pretty good background in electronics and fabrication by doing alot of battlebots stuff, but I've never had much experience with cars or audio other than the past week that I've been reading alot of online articles. I especially liked Mr. B's car audio faq ;) One other requirement, minimize infringement on passenger/trunk space.
The Host Vehicle:
1991 Honda Accord LX, it's an ugly s.o.b. with granny grey exterior, and burgundy interior, but it gets me around.
The Plan:
It's more of a work in progress really, with lots of holes that need filling since I have absolutely NO real world experience with any of this.
Currently I'm thinking about changing out the front speakers to run off of channels 1 and 2 of the amp and possibly paralleling the rear speakers with the front or just doing away with them completely, who needs fade anyway?
The other two channels would be used for sub/s in a self made sealed enclosure with signal coming from the only other rca outputs from the head unit that can be used as either woofer or rear speaker preamps (which is the main reason for paralleling the right and left side speakers, or doing away with rear speakers alltogether). Would this work with the Xtant amp, or do I need to invest in an amp specifically designed for a sub?
I don't want to stuff the sub/s in the trunk since the Xtant probably doesn't have enough power for the kind of subs needed and I listened to a friend's system that had a pair of 12"s in the trunk and it sounded like a bunch of deranged jackalopes were performing an Irish jig on the exterior of the car. One idea was to put a single 10" or 12" sub in the trunk and simply fold down the rear seats. Another was to replace the rear speakers with two 6.5" subs, although I'm sure this would sacrifice low frequency range, not to mention being a pain to seal up and enclose. Finally the most ambitious idea would be to remove the foldout armrest, leaving a 7" by 17" hole in the rear seats, where a sub could mount to in the trunk and face the interior.
That's probably enough questions for now, more specifics to follow once the main plan is decided on.
Replies (15)
uochronos on 08/7/2004 04:53:59
wow yes alot of questions there... i can feel the thirst for knowledge is strong with this one:)
you sound like me 2 years ago. and trust me even on a lmiited budget good SQ(Sound Quality) is acghiveable...
ok i well bvreak this down...
first using the 4 channel amp to power a sub or 2 subs and the front speakers is a great idea. for SQ alot of power is not needed for the subs. sound s like your friend with the jackalope infestation is more for SPL(Sound Preasure Level) loudness and not SQ.
if you run the 2 front speakers off the front channels and then the subs off the rear you can run your rear speakers off the Head unit and get a very decently powered syustem.
now for great SQ front speakers i suggest the CDT CL-61 component sets that are around 130$ shipped from www.thezeb.com for the price these are truly amazing speakers that can help bring your vision to reality.
for subs i would suggest a single 10" sub for SQ purpose. a jl W0, a elemental deisng Kv2 series, adire has sopme good lower power SQ subs, also alpine type R or S are a great choice. any of these well make you very happy great SQ and can get pretty loud as well when needed. any of these can be had for 70-140$ or so.
now the real trick to getting great SQ for a sub the box. with about 25$ of materials you can buiild a box that well produce great SQ from your sub. minimum skill is required to build a box and usualy only takes a couple hours from a beginer eevn.
as for sub in the trunk as long as you dont over power the sub you wont get that crazy jackalope radiling. anywhere the sub is mountred with alot of power well cause anoying rattling.
the 6.5" speaker you talked about using for subs are not going to just sacrifice low range it well sacrifice everything below 70hz and wont sound as well under 120hz as a sub well... the 6.5 components ni mentioned above well do nicly to fill in midbass 100-500hz but to get the bass you really want a 8-10" well be whatn you need to ge4t good SQ bass.
as for rear speakers a decent set of 6.5 coaxils well deliver nice fil,l from the rear. and running stright off the head unit well give enough power for the rear fill.
the biggest thing to remember is take it slow and wait to get the best you can for your money and you well get a great sq system for your money.
hope this helps and welcome to CK
Chronos
PS
i loved the jackalope analogy if you couldnt tell:)
swez on 08/7/2004 08:39:52
Sounds like a solid game plan here. Indeed, use the rear speakers and p;ower them off the rear channels of the HU. They are just fill and if you joined them with the from amp channels, they will overpower the fronts. You will want fade for an SQ install.
As for the sub, a single 10 or 12 will be fine here. You can expect ~200 watts RMS from bridging the rear channels. So a 4 ohm sub will be fine. To keep in budget, consider the Infinity Reference series sub. Moderate power, very good SQ at a low budget price.
This one: http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1030W $90.00
or this: http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1230W $100.00
If you shop it off e-bay, have seen this one below $80.00.
Alpine also makes a fine sub. The SWS series (2+4 DVC) will work as well. The older series SWR-1041 or 1241 will do a fine job as well.So will the SWE series. Look here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QzxZdNtx2Fh/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=500SWE1041
Swez
Pinch on 08/7/2004 12:33:12
Just my personal experience...the Alpine Type-E sounds a lot better than the Infinity Reference in most installations. I too prefer a clean SQ based install, and the Infinity just seems like it's missing something.
uochronos on 08/7/2004 18:32:11
both can sound very nice in the right box. i prefer the alpines myself as well but both are a very nice SQ speaker. infinities are a bit more versitile in my opinion i think they sound better in ported applications then the alpines do. my friend had a set of Reference 12's in a ported box and they where extremly clean sounding for a ported sub. all the type R ported enclosures i have heard seem to be lacking in SQ compared to them in a sealed box. just an opinion though. thats about the main differnce i have seen between the .
if your going sealed i would go with which ever i could find for a more reasonable price.
Zach_G on 08/7/2004 18:37:36
Ok, I took a little trip to a surplus store, Tanner Electronics, that has alot of audio equipment for cheap. Now I know the saying "you get what you pay for" but I thought I'd throw some of the finds out there and see if there were any real gems in that pile pretty pretty princess jewelry.
Audio Pipe APS-1633 $29.95 http://www.audiopipe.com/Product.asp?CompanyID=AUDIOPIPE&CategoryID=APSK
Audio Pipe APS-1611 $29.95 http://www.audiopipe.com/Product.asp?CompanyID=AUDIOPIPE&CategoryID=APSK
Q Power QP650 Coaxial $16.95
Big Brute 3 way RC-06 $19.95
AudioX 3 way P0-1633 $18.95
Power Base 2 way 60Wrms PB-BK5 $39.95
Now for the subs
Vifa 8" FS29.5H Qm2.2 OE.31 Qt.27 Vas77 SD 235cm2 B110.2
Jensen XS12W $15.95
Thruster THW1050 $36.95 175Wrms FS:35Hz SPL:90dB QTS:.25 VAS:150L
Q Power Total Silver 8" 300Wmax-$19.95; 10" 400Wmax-$29.95; 12" 500Wmax-$39.95
One last thing, in the xtant amp manual http://www.xtant.com/html/techSupport/pdfs/MSeriesMan.pdf it says that it has a power capability of 50W into a 4ohm load, and 100W @2ohms, doesn't this mean that if 2 channels were bridged into a 4ohm sub, the average power output would be 100W? To take advantage of the full 200W available, either use a 2ohm sub, or a 4ohm DVC sub wired for 2ohms right?
swez on 08/7/2004 20:33:08
Of all the items listed, I would bank on Vifa. AudioPipe is the norm in UK, but we see very little of them here. No experience with others mentioned.
One thing that is prevailent in car audio... bogus specs! Makers offer some very outrageous claims... but are not accountable for meeting these claims or specs. Branded names like Alpine, Rockford, JL and others give you what they claim. Yes, they cost more... for a reason... quality!
As for subs and amp question, if they (X-tant) caims 50 watts RMS at 4 ohms, 75-100 watts is possible at 2 ohms per channel. If you bridge, the amp, will need a 4 ohm load... PERIOD!
Unless it is a high current (HC) amp. Under 4 ohms when bridged is very iffy. This is pretty much true of all Class A/B amplifiers. Class D & T amps can usually do 2 ohms and some will do a 1 ohm load well. But not a Class A/B amp... unless it is an HC version.
Here, a 2+2 DVC is useful as we can run each coil off a channel or bridge the amp with a 4 ohm load. Alpine series has them. Trust me on this one... have done a lot of research and have been a Sr. Tech contributor on this site for ~4 years. Am not a newbie and would not steer you wrong.
Swez
Zach_G on 08/8/2004 01:48:17
Doh! You're right, I am not worthy, I am not worthy... I should have read the manual more thoroughly and not been stupid. Somehow this "bridging" doubles the average voltage across the speaker, allowing double the current to flow and thus increasing the power to a 4ohm load by a factor of 4, getting that 50W rating up to 200W. IT ALL SEEMS CLEAR TO ME NOW!
Anyways, I'll probably end up going to Tanner to pick up a sub, either the Vifa, Audio Pipe or Thruster, some cheap rear fill speakers and whatever else hardware. With the money saved on that deal, I'll go to the nearby Tweeter/Car Toys/Best Buy and get one of the afforementioned front speakers and head unit kit on the condition that they let me watch an install. Since I'm feeling a bit nervous digging around in the engine compartment routing wires in places i never knew existed in a car, watching it done once will give some confidence.
uochronos on 08/8/2004 02:55:09
may i suggest instead of buying one of those subs at a discount place.. unless you are really set on it you can with a little shopping online get a sub you know well perform well for a few dollars more. alpine type E subs on ebay are very cheap
http://search.ebay.com/alpine-type-E_W0QQfromZR8QQsasaleclassZ1QQsbrbinZtQQsbrsrtZlQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ3
also infinity refernce for around 40$
on ebay this is a great deal.
i only write this because my first sub was from a "discount" type store and i still have it just to remind me of why i dont shop there for speakers. sure the sub only cost me 35$ but honestly it wasnt worth 10$ in my opinion. from ebay or www.partsexpress.com or www.thezeb.com you can get a good good name brand sub for around 50-100$ in your power range. you can get a lower end name brand sub for under 70$ if you look hard. it well probaly be worth it to spend the extra 30$ now and not end up chucking the sub later.
my whole first system cost me around 300$ and sounded horrible. it wasnt loud it wasnt good sound quality it reall just wanst pleasent to listen to the highs where shrill the lows where muddy.
in general i was displeased and felt i had thrown away 300$ now if i had shoped online and hunted for deals i could have put that 300$ into equipment that was better then a paper weight. i'm not trying to preach here just the words of someone else who had a vision of a SQ system that would blow people away and settled for a system that made people run away.
now my road has taken me to trying to achieve compitition quality. which is porobaly not your goal but i have spent under 1500$ and have one of the best sounding system i have ever heard now if alls you want is a good daily driver with good sq it well cost much less probaly under 500$ so just be warned those bargins look awefull nice but often leave you wanting alot more.
i hope this helps you on your way.
swez on 08/8/2004 10:24:15
Give it up....You are worthy... LOL and if you hang around a while, you'll meet some very talented team members here at CK. Many are Specialists in one area or another. Others are Generalists and have a broad range of knowledge in car audio. The Golds are longstanding member in this forum... but some very sharp non-Golds here to, that will be upgraded to Golds in the future.
When bridging an amp, one channel is summed with the other channel (power inversion method summing) to provide a greater output to the speaker. However, most multi-channel amps have a limit of 4 ohms min load when bridged. That's why I harp on it so often... you can toast a bridged amp with too low a load resistance. Good that you read the manual more carefully... now you know.
I really would advise against bargain basement gear unless you really know what is being offered. Yes, there may be a few diamonds in the rough there... but most likely a bunch of rocks too. How to tell the difference takes some knowhow. Otherwise, you'll wind up with an expensive paper weight too and (very unhappy camper) that good money was tossed at bad value products. We've all done that once...and just trying to encourage you to avoid our less than wonderful experiences.
Swez
Zach_G on 08/10/2004 00:14:58
Perhaps I should stop trying to think for myself and just do what you say lol. Took the plunge and bought the CDT-CL61's (they're up to $150 now) and got a good deal on an infinity 1230W from ebay for $50. I'll have to go with some surplus rear fill speakers since funds are running low. I still have yet to purchase a HU kit, box building materials, another pair of rca cables and any other hardware so it's going to be close to make it on budget.
As for installing the amp, I've decided the best location for my personal situation is under the passenger seat, but I'm wondering what are some common methods of fastening it down? Should I mount it to a plank of plywood and screw/glue that down to a section of floor that I cut carpet away from or what?
uochronos on 08/10/2004 02:36:00
even at 150$ the CDTs well impress you... they are noarmaly twice that.... and are worth 300$ in the quality of sound you well get, rear fill speakers dont need to be fancy i personalky usualy go with a 50$ or less set of speakers. but thats my own personaly preference.
as for mounting the amp down most amps come with a method for mounting them my Phoenix gold amp has literal mounts built onto it you just screw it down and my avionixx amp came with little metal mounting brackets,,, as for mounting it to wood first that would work. i usualy just mount the amp strieght to what ever i'm hooking ito. as in the trunk floor, the sub box, or stright to metal under the seat... however i have seen plent of installs where it was mounted to wood first then to the floor. either way it well work. and since it well be under a seat it doesnt have to look incredibly pretty. so i would go with what ever works easiest.
honeslty i think you well be very pleased with this system after you get it all in. at least i hope so.
Zach_G on 08/15/2004 02:22:31
Just thought that I would give an update on what I've been up to. Man I've got some respect for all you installers, I feel I've learned so many new positions the human body was not meant to be in trying to crimp a wire or search for a dropped screw...
Troubles aside, I ran all the wires, put 6.5" rear speakers in a 6.25" hole and modified the hell out of the HU kit to get it to fit. Yet each step of the way it seems Honda mocks my efforts.
After removing the passenger seat to mount the amp, I found that real estate already taken by some seat belt warning system box. I then fought the driver side seat out of the car, put the amp down, and plopped the seat back in only to find out the amp is like .25" too wide and mounting it longways would leave no room for a passenger's feet! Taking my grief out on a tire, I decided It'd have to go in the trunk with the sub. Spending a few hours trying to figure out how to attach it to a side panel, my creativity failed me, so now it's getting bolted to the sub box which leaves me at my current point in time and that's just one of my many fights.
But it payed off when I reattached the -battery terminal (safety first) popped in a CD and heard beatiful music coming from the rear speakers that sounded 4 times better (and louder) than the old stereo. I can't imagine how good it's going to be when everything else is hooked up.
Oh yeah, funny thing. When I pulled out the old speakers, most of the surround had disintegrated, and the cone turned to dust when I touched it, those things are old.
uochronos on 08/15/2004 03:00:46
sounds like you learned alot thats always good and other installes only get easier after the first one(usualy)
ya old speakers especialy stock go bad pretty fast i would say 5-10years and they are pretty well worn. just not good componentr materials.
glad you enjoy your new system and that we could help you out.
P0werLifter on 08/15/2004 04:46:05
Great, thats what we love to hear, someone learning and having fun while doing it. There are allways things that go wrong in someway or another doing installs or anything for that matter. If it can go wrong...it will...Just have to keep calm..think straight, and figure out how to A. fix it, or B. Get around it GRIN
Have fun and enjoy your new system =)
-Jason
swez on 08/15/2004 11:12:17
We have all heard the story of Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong... it will"
But it seems like you have experienced O'Brien's Law: "Murphy was an Optimist" GRIN
I give you credit for ramaining calm and collected through all the travails noted so far... but it'll all be worth it when finished. Hang in there!
Swez
PS I find that a rubber mallet, whacking wood boards relieves stress. So does chopping a few cords of wood. One is very productive if you need firewood. The other is just to vent. You can deside which is best for your needs. hehe
Self install of a great sounding, SQ based system that will make a hard rock fan want to listen to classical because it sounds soo good.
The Reality:
I'm a cheap schmough in the DFW area who happened to get his greasy hands on an Alpine CDA-7863 HU, and an Xtant 404m 4 channel x 100W @ 2 ohm amp and has $300 left to go. I've got a pretty good background in electronics and fabrication by doing alot of battlebots stuff, but I've never had much experience with cars or audio other than the past week that I've been reading alot of online articles. I especially liked Mr. B's car audio faq ;) One other requirement, minimize infringement on passenger/trunk space.
The Host Vehicle:
1991 Honda Accord LX, it's an ugly s.o.b. with granny grey exterior, and burgundy interior, but it gets me around.
The Plan:
It's more of a work in progress really, with lots of holes that need filling since I have absolutely NO real world experience with any of this.
Currently I'm thinking about changing out the front speakers to run off of channels 1 and 2 of the amp and possibly paralleling the rear speakers with the front or just doing away with them completely, who needs fade anyway?
The other two channels would be used for sub/s in a self made sealed enclosure with signal coming from the only other rca outputs from the head unit that can be used as either woofer or rear speaker preamps (which is the main reason for paralleling the right and left side speakers, or doing away with rear speakers alltogether). Would this work with the Xtant amp, or do I need to invest in an amp specifically designed for a sub?
I don't want to stuff the sub/s in the trunk since the Xtant probably doesn't have enough power for the kind of subs needed and I listened to a friend's system that had a pair of 12"s in the trunk and it sounded like a bunch of deranged jackalopes were performing an Irish jig on the exterior of the car. One idea was to put a single 10" or 12" sub in the trunk and simply fold down the rear seats. Another was to replace the rear speakers with two 6.5" subs, although I'm sure this would sacrifice low frequency range, not to mention being a pain to seal up and enclose. Finally the most ambitious idea would be to remove the foldout armrest, leaving a 7" by 17" hole in the rear seats, where a sub could mount to in the trunk and face the interior.
That's probably enough questions for now, more specifics to follow once the main plan is decided on.
Replies (15)
uochronos on 08/7/2004 04:53:59
wow yes alot of questions there... i can feel the thirst for knowledge is strong with this one:)
you sound like me 2 years ago. and trust me even on a lmiited budget good SQ(Sound Quality) is acghiveable...
ok i well bvreak this down...
first using the 4 channel amp to power a sub or 2 subs and the front speakers is a great idea. for SQ alot of power is not needed for the subs. sound s like your friend with the jackalope infestation is more for SPL(Sound Preasure Level) loudness and not SQ.
if you run the 2 front speakers off the front channels and then the subs off the rear you can run your rear speakers off the Head unit and get a very decently powered syustem.
now for great SQ front speakers i suggest the CDT CL-61 component sets that are around 130$ shipped from www.thezeb.com for the price these are truly amazing speakers that can help bring your vision to reality.
for subs i would suggest a single 10" sub for SQ purpose. a jl W0, a elemental deisng Kv2 series, adire has sopme good lower power SQ subs, also alpine type R or S are a great choice. any of these well make you very happy great SQ and can get pretty loud as well when needed. any of these can be had for 70-140$ or so.
now the real trick to getting great SQ for a sub the box. with about 25$ of materials you can buiild a box that well produce great SQ from your sub. minimum skill is required to build a box and usualy only takes a couple hours from a beginer eevn.
as for sub in the trunk as long as you dont over power the sub you wont get that crazy jackalope radiling. anywhere the sub is mountred with alot of power well cause anoying rattling.
the 6.5" speaker you talked about using for subs are not going to just sacrifice low range it well sacrifice everything below 70hz and wont sound as well under 120hz as a sub well... the 6.5 components ni mentioned above well do nicly to fill in midbass 100-500hz but to get the bass you really want a 8-10" well be whatn you need to ge4t good SQ bass.
as for rear speakers a decent set of 6.5 coaxils well deliver nice fil,l from the rear. and running stright off the head unit well give enough power for the rear fill.
the biggest thing to remember is take it slow and wait to get the best you can for your money and you well get a great sq system for your money.
hope this helps and welcome to CK
Chronos
PS
i loved the jackalope analogy if you couldnt tell:)
swez on 08/7/2004 08:39:52
Sounds like a solid game plan here. Indeed, use the rear speakers and p;ower them off the rear channels of the HU. They are just fill and if you joined them with the from amp channels, they will overpower the fronts. You will want fade for an SQ install.
As for the sub, a single 10 or 12 will be fine here. You can expect ~200 watts RMS from bridging the rear channels. So a 4 ohm sub will be fine. To keep in budget, consider the Infinity Reference series sub. Moderate power, very good SQ at a low budget price.
This one: http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1030W $90.00
or this: http://www.cardomain.com/item/INFREF1230W $100.00
If you shop it off e-bay, have seen this one below $80.00.
Alpine also makes a fine sub. The SWS series (2+4 DVC) will work as well. The older series SWR-1041 or 1241 will do a fine job as well.So will the SWE series. Look here:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-QzxZdNtx2Fh/cgi-bin/prodview.asp?i=500SWE1041
Swez
Pinch on 08/7/2004 12:33:12
Just my personal experience...the Alpine Type-E sounds a lot better than the Infinity Reference in most installations. I too prefer a clean SQ based install, and the Infinity just seems like it's missing something.
uochronos on 08/7/2004 18:32:11
both can sound very nice in the right box. i prefer the alpines myself as well but both are a very nice SQ speaker. infinities are a bit more versitile in my opinion i think they sound better in ported applications then the alpines do. my friend had a set of Reference 12's in a ported box and they where extremly clean sounding for a ported sub. all the type R ported enclosures i have heard seem to be lacking in SQ compared to them in a sealed box. just an opinion though. thats about the main differnce i have seen between the .
if your going sealed i would go with which ever i could find for a more reasonable price.
Zach_G on 08/7/2004 18:37:36
Ok, I took a little trip to a surplus store, Tanner Electronics, that has alot of audio equipment for cheap. Now I know the saying "you get what you pay for" but I thought I'd throw some of the finds out there and see if there were any real gems in that pile pretty pretty princess jewelry.
Audio Pipe APS-1633 $29.95 http://www.audiopipe.com/Product.asp?CompanyID=AUDIOPIPE&CategoryID=APSK
Audio Pipe APS-1611 $29.95 http://www.audiopipe.com/Product.asp?CompanyID=AUDIOPIPE&CategoryID=APSK
Q Power QP650 Coaxial $16.95
Big Brute 3 way RC-06 $19.95
AudioX 3 way P0-1633 $18.95
Power Base 2 way 60Wrms PB-BK5 $39.95
Now for the subs
Vifa 8" FS29.5H Qm2.2 OE.31 Qt.27 Vas77 SD 235cm2 B110.2
Jensen XS12W $15.95
Thruster THW1050 $36.95 175Wrms FS:35Hz SPL:90dB QTS:.25 VAS:150L
Q Power Total Silver 8" 300Wmax-$19.95; 10" 400Wmax-$29.95; 12" 500Wmax-$39.95
One last thing, in the xtant amp manual http://www.xtant.com/html/techSupport/pdfs/MSeriesMan.pdf it says that it has a power capability of 50W into a 4ohm load, and 100W @2ohms, doesn't this mean that if 2 channels were bridged into a 4ohm sub, the average power output would be 100W? To take advantage of the full 200W available, either use a 2ohm sub, or a 4ohm DVC sub wired for 2ohms right?
swez on 08/7/2004 20:33:08
Of all the items listed, I would bank on Vifa. AudioPipe is the norm in UK, but we see very little of them here. No experience with others mentioned.
One thing that is prevailent in car audio... bogus specs! Makers offer some very outrageous claims... but are not accountable for meeting these claims or specs. Branded names like Alpine, Rockford, JL and others give you what they claim. Yes, they cost more... for a reason... quality!
As for subs and amp question, if they (X-tant) caims 50 watts RMS at 4 ohms, 75-100 watts is possible at 2 ohms per channel. If you bridge, the amp, will need a 4 ohm load... PERIOD!
Unless it is a high current (HC) amp. Under 4 ohms when bridged is very iffy. This is pretty much true of all Class A/B amplifiers. Class D & T amps can usually do 2 ohms and some will do a 1 ohm load well. But not a Class A/B amp... unless it is an HC version.
Here, a 2+2 DVC is useful as we can run each coil off a channel or bridge the amp with a 4 ohm load. Alpine series has them. Trust me on this one... have done a lot of research and have been a Sr. Tech contributor on this site for ~4 years. Am not a newbie and would not steer you wrong.
Swez
Zach_G on 08/8/2004 01:48:17
Doh! You're right, I am not worthy, I am not worthy... I should have read the manual more thoroughly and not been stupid. Somehow this "bridging" doubles the average voltage across the speaker, allowing double the current to flow and thus increasing the power to a 4ohm load by a factor of 4, getting that 50W rating up to 200W. IT ALL SEEMS CLEAR TO ME NOW!
Anyways, I'll probably end up going to Tanner to pick up a sub, either the Vifa, Audio Pipe or Thruster, some cheap rear fill speakers and whatever else hardware. With the money saved on that deal, I'll go to the nearby Tweeter/Car Toys/Best Buy and get one of the afforementioned front speakers and head unit kit on the condition that they let me watch an install. Since I'm feeling a bit nervous digging around in the engine compartment routing wires in places i never knew existed in a car, watching it done once will give some confidence.
uochronos on 08/8/2004 02:55:09
may i suggest instead of buying one of those subs at a discount place.. unless you are really set on it you can with a little shopping online get a sub you know well perform well for a few dollars more. alpine type E subs on ebay are very cheap
http://search.ebay.com/alpine-type-E_W0QQfromZR8QQsasaleclassZ1QQsbrbinZtQQsbrsrtZlQQsosortorderZ1QQsosortpropertyZ3
also infinity refernce for around 40$
on ebay this is a great deal.
i only write this because my first sub was from a "discount" type store and i still have it just to remind me of why i dont shop there for speakers. sure the sub only cost me 35$ but honestly it wasnt worth 10$ in my opinion. from ebay or www.partsexpress.com or www.thezeb.com you can get a good good name brand sub for around 50-100$ in your power range. you can get a lower end name brand sub for under 70$ if you look hard. it well probaly be worth it to spend the extra 30$ now and not end up chucking the sub later.
my whole first system cost me around 300$ and sounded horrible. it wasnt loud it wasnt good sound quality it reall just wanst pleasent to listen to the highs where shrill the lows where muddy.
in general i was displeased and felt i had thrown away 300$ now if i had shoped online and hunted for deals i could have put that 300$ into equipment that was better then a paper weight. i'm not trying to preach here just the words of someone else who had a vision of a SQ system that would blow people away and settled for a system that made people run away.
now my road has taken me to trying to achieve compitition quality. which is porobaly not your goal but i have spent under 1500$ and have one of the best sounding system i have ever heard now if alls you want is a good daily driver with good sq it well cost much less probaly under 500$ so just be warned those bargins look awefull nice but often leave you wanting alot more.
i hope this helps you on your way.
swez on 08/8/2004 10:24:15
Give it up....You are worthy... LOL and if you hang around a while, you'll meet some very talented team members here at CK. Many are Specialists in one area or another. Others are Generalists and have a broad range of knowledge in car audio. The Golds are longstanding member in this forum... but some very sharp non-Golds here to, that will be upgraded to Golds in the future.
When bridging an amp, one channel is summed with the other channel (power inversion method summing) to provide a greater output to the speaker. However, most multi-channel amps have a limit of 4 ohms min load when bridged. That's why I harp on it so often... you can toast a bridged amp with too low a load resistance. Good that you read the manual more carefully... now you know.
I really would advise against bargain basement gear unless you really know what is being offered. Yes, there may be a few diamonds in the rough there... but most likely a bunch of rocks too. How to tell the difference takes some knowhow. Otherwise, you'll wind up with an expensive paper weight too and (very unhappy camper) that good money was tossed at bad value products. We've all done that once...and just trying to encourage you to avoid our less than wonderful experiences.
Swez
Zach_G on 08/10/2004 00:14:58
Perhaps I should stop trying to think for myself and just do what you say lol. Took the plunge and bought the CDT-CL61's (they're up to $150 now) and got a good deal on an infinity 1230W from ebay for $50. I'll have to go with some surplus rear fill speakers since funds are running low. I still have yet to purchase a HU kit, box building materials, another pair of rca cables and any other hardware so it's going to be close to make it on budget.
As for installing the amp, I've decided the best location for my personal situation is under the passenger seat, but I'm wondering what are some common methods of fastening it down? Should I mount it to a plank of plywood and screw/glue that down to a section of floor that I cut carpet away from or what?
uochronos on 08/10/2004 02:36:00
even at 150$ the CDTs well impress you... they are noarmaly twice that.... and are worth 300$ in the quality of sound you well get, rear fill speakers dont need to be fancy i personalky usualy go with a 50$ or less set of speakers. but thats my own personaly preference.
as for mounting the amp down most amps come with a method for mounting them my Phoenix gold amp has literal mounts built onto it you just screw it down and my avionixx amp came with little metal mounting brackets,,, as for mounting it to wood first that would work. i usualy just mount the amp strieght to what ever i'm hooking ito. as in the trunk floor, the sub box, or stright to metal under the seat... however i have seen plent of installs where it was mounted to wood first then to the floor. either way it well work. and since it well be under a seat it doesnt have to look incredibly pretty. so i would go with what ever works easiest.
honeslty i think you well be very pleased with this system after you get it all in. at least i hope so.
Zach_G on 08/15/2004 02:22:31
Just thought that I would give an update on what I've been up to. Man I've got some respect for all you installers, I feel I've learned so many new positions the human body was not meant to be in trying to crimp a wire or search for a dropped screw...
Troubles aside, I ran all the wires, put 6.5" rear speakers in a 6.25" hole and modified the hell out of the HU kit to get it to fit. Yet each step of the way it seems Honda mocks my efforts.
After removing the passenger seat to mount the amp, I found that real estate already taken by some seat belt warning system box. I then fought the driver side seat out of the car, put the amp down, and plopped the seat back in only to find out the amp is like .25" too wide and mounting it longways would leave no room for a passenger's feet! Taking my grief out on a tire, I decided It'd have to go in the trunk with the sub. Spending a few hours trying to figure out how to attach it to a side panel, my creativity failed me, so now it's getting bolted to the sub box which leaves me at my current point in time and that's just one of my many fights.
But it payed off when I reattached the -battery terminal (safety first) popped in a CD and heard beatiful music coming from the rear speakers that sounded 4 times better (and louder) than the old stereo. I can't imagine how good it's going to be when everything else is hooked up.
Oh yeah, funny thing. When I pulled out the old speakers, most of the surround had disintegrated, and the cone turned to dust when I touched it, those things are old.
uochronos on 08/15/2004 03:00:46
sounds like you learned alot thats always good and other installes only get easier after the first one(usualy)
ya old speakers especialy stock go bad pretty fast i would say 5-10years and they are pretty well worn. just not good componentr materials.
glad you enjoy your new system and that we could help you out.
P0werLifter on 08/15/2004 04:46:05
Great, thats what we love to hear, someone learning and having fun while doing it. There are allways things that go wrong in someway or another doing installs or anything for that matter. If it can go wrong...it will...Just have to keep calm..think straight, and figure out how to A. fix it, or B. Get around it GRIN
Have fun and enjoy your new system =)
-Jason
swez on 08/15/2004 11:12:17
We have all heard the story of Murphy's Law: "If anything can go wrong... it will"
But it seems like you have experienced O'Brien's Law: "Murphy was an Optimist" GRIN
I give you credit for ramaining calm and collected through all the travails noted so far... but it'll all be worth it when finished. Hang in there!
Swez
PS I find that a rubber mallet, whacking wood boards relieves stress. So does chopping a few cords of wood. One is very productive if you need firewood. The other is just to vent. You can deside which is best for your needs. hehe
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