Hey guys whats up? ive got a quick questions just to verify if i got it right on how to set up my dual optimas...Positive terminal on battery1 to negative terminal on opposite battery (#2)....negative terminal on battery1 to positive on Battery 2. Do i need anything else or do i have it set right..thanks THINK
Replies (35)
uochronos on 06/26/2004 06:18:42
this is not my area of expertise but from what i have picked up here you need to get an isolator for the bateries its sort of a buffer inbetween the 2 batteries and the alternator which divides up where the power goes. So you do not damage the batteries. hooking them in series as you mentioned may be a bad idea although i'm not 100% sure why. also when switching to a dual battery system getting 2 new batteries that are identical is recomended. i'm sure one of the other well be along shortly and can give more detail.
ttocs on 06/26/2004 09:54:57
what size engine and alt does your truck have? You will be putting a large load on the alt and that will shorten its life.
That is a parallel scheme he is describing.
swez on 06/26/2004 11:39:42
DANGER... DANGER, WILL ROBINSON.... YOU ARE ON THE BRINK OF DISASTER !!!
This is NOT what you want to do as this will blow up both batteries. The wiring configuration (as I read it) will pit BAT 1 against BAT 2. They will buck in opposite polarities and spark like fireworks... probably blow up in your face.
When using dual batteries, they need to be wired in PARALLEL. That means.... Pos on Bat #1, to Pos on Bat #2. Neg on Bat #1, to Neg on Bat #2. This nets ~12.5 volts to your electrical system and loads of potential current storage capacity to your system. But this also place a larger load on your electricals... Ie... ALT.
Most guys will use a 2nd battery to beef up the current demand from larger amps. However, the ALT is the primary source of power,
(Watts = Voltage x Current) to run the show. If that's (ALT) not up to par, adding more loads (Batteries, CAPs & AMPLIFIERS) only makes matters worse.
Before we can really help you get to a home run, need to know what you have to work with now. Please explain your system goals, gear to install and how much ALT power you have to work with at the moment.
Since this is a truck, the ALT you have now, may be adequate to meet the install you have in mind. Adding a 2nd battery may help... but it could hurt your ALT in the long run if the ALT cannot manage all the loads being place on the system.
Say more on your Amps, ALT and BAT options in the bag now? Then we can sort out some well thought out options with you OK?
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/26/2004 12:58:57
Thanks guys..alright Swez heres the scoup, Im putting in 2 MOFO series Power Acoustik subs with a MTX 1501 Amp powering them, a 2 farad Cap and a 300Wat alpine amp powering my mids and highs. I have two Yellow Top Optima Batteries with the stock Alternator (80amp I believe) for right now. Eventually within the year im going to be purchasing a Stinger 200amp alternator for my truck. The reason i want 2 batteries is my lights are dimming with what i have in there right now and me and my buddies cant figure out why. I have a Zapco 750 powering 2 MTX 8000 with the cap and my lights dim everytime the bass hits.
Is that all the info you need? to help me out? BTW eventually i want to get my truck to compete in SPL but thats not for a while. Oh and do i need an Isolater or will it be fine if i run it in parallel
Jason
Munchiesyumm on 06/26/2004 13:58:20
What year model is this truck?
I have a 1990 Chevy Lumina with a 2.5ltr and my alt is 105amp I would think a truck would have a larger alt. Go out to you're truck with some cleaner and a rag and spray the rag and whipe off all the dust to see if it says the alt has the amp rating on it.
I have a couple suggestions on..... Get rid of those Farad Caps.. Take them back to the store and get you're money back to invest it in a larger alt. (80amps is not enough) You will destroy you're electrical system if you install everything you have now.
I would like you to read this DIY article. This will give you a good idea why the system you have will destroy you're electrical system.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t10
Please use spacing when listing products and make sure to also put down the model numbers so we can go look up the specs/details of each part.
The reason you're lights are dimming is because you don't have enough power being supplied by you're alt. When you're lights are dimming that means you're alt is working to the max and being extremely stressed. Do the math and figure out how many amps you're amplifiers pull and add them all up. Keep you're system really low until you can solve this so you don't burn anything out.
swez on 06/26/2004 14:15:52
Jason,
This is a tough one now and will only get worse when you upgrade to a larger sub amp. Why? The ALT/BAT cannot keep up with the load.... amps, lights and any other accessories you may be running like Fog lights, extra lighting and other toys installed.
That 80A Alt is struggling to fill the BAT enough to keep your Zapco amp from draining the system. The Amps alone, will draw over 70 amperes of current. Adding a CAP actually compounds the problem as it can only work when the CAP is well charged. That too, is stealing precious watts from the electrical system. In all... OVERLOADING THE ALTERNATOR AND BATTERY... BIG TIME ALREADY.
If you want to run a major Bass Machine in the near future, that ALT has got to be upgraded soon. As is, it will probably die in a few weeks and may take the present battery with it. Now, you will be forced to upgrade right?
Tell me... what are the fuse ratings of each amp you have now? Just add them up. If they are 75% or more than the rated ALT output, the only fix is to upgrade your electricals. In the meantime, use your audio system with restraint or you may find yourself stranded on the road some night with a dead electrical system.
Finally, adding dual Optima batteries in the future is a very good idea. Yes, if you did this now and used a battery charging isolator, you may get some relief by powering the sub amp off the 2nd battery and the use the primary battery to power car electricals and the smaller interior amplifier. However, isolators cannot make up for current draw the ALT cannot support. It will charge the primary starter battery first, then begin to charge the sub amp battery. I cannot say in all confidence that your present ALT can do all this very well.
A short term step that might help.... find a HO ALT that will give you say 140-160A of output for now. These are easier to find at local Parts store and much cheaper than a Stinger 200A. The good news is, GM makes several output versions that fit in the same cases. If you can get one of these for say $150.00 or so now, that will get you through until you get the bigger sub amp.
Swez
PS Some guys in SPL COMPS will run multiple ALTS and a bank of batteries. This might be where you are headed if you really get the SPL bug. For now, look for an inexpensive ALT (rebuilts are much cheaper) that will get you close to 150A.
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 00:45:31
Alright thanks alot..ill go a head and ditch the 2 battery idea for now and return the optima and try to get a hold of a high output alt b4 i go dual batteries. Id rather beef up the alternator than have it go out on me in the middle of no where haha..Thanks for your help guys sorry it was such a dumb post im still learning...its a process haha ill keep you updated and if u have any other input lemme know
swez on 06/27/2004 11:16:18
Jason,
Glad you heard our warnings! Right now, focus on beefing up your ALT supply. If you can find a form,fit & function rebuilt (120-160A) ALT for this truck, a single Optima 800+ CCA rated BAT should get you by.
Again, GM makes several output versions that are often in the same casing. They may not be spec'd in your truck, but if the mounting brackets are the same and the overall housing will fit, the only thing you may have to deal with is "re-clocking" the case to fit.
Case in point: I had a 1990 Olds Trofeo' with a (3800 series engine) and stock 108A ALT. It pooped out and I got a 120A version to drop right in. The 120 version is a larger case, but it still fit. I eventually off'd that car and now drive a 92 Buick LeSabre.
Same engine size (3800)... but before I sold the Olds, I swapped the Buick 105A ALT (stock, but almost new) and put the 120A ALT in the Buick. I did have to re-clock both ALTS to fit however. This 120A was a very tight fit in the Buick... but with patience and some kind mutterings under my breath... I got it in there. YIPPY SKIPPY. You may be able to do the same thing.
Also, when you get in there to swap ALTs', upgrade the power feed wires from ALT/BAT, BAT/GND and add a 2nd engine block to body braded ground. Use #4 gage wires for the ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. Most good autoparts store sell upgrade kits to do this. I hope your Optima has both side and top post terminals. This will make all your wiring so much easier to do and the larger wires will pass more power to give a best you can get... from your current and new electricals add ons.
Swez
uochronos on 06/27/2004 14:34:55
i just got my 200amp alternator off ebay with a lifetime warranty for 200$ i would check around on there for one.
uochronos on 06/27/2004 15:02:09
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=motorcityreman&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50
this is the guy i bought mine from if he doesn2t list one for yours just ask them they put one on ebay specificaly for me for my ranger. btw i didnt see it what engine is in your truck and i well look around for an alternator a bit
swez on 06/27/2004 18:17:14
I would hazzard to guess he has the 4.3 liter V-6. That was the largest engine size I noted on S/T style Chevy trucks off another site.
Let PL confirm that.... but that's my guess.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 18:21:26
Nope Swez...i got the beefy 5.7 Ltr V8 350 Engine hehe =) alrighty today i took back the battery..got my money back to my acct..and tomorrow if i dont find anything better im going to order a 140amp alt from Summit for only 130 =). And Swez..already a step ahead lol i had beefed up all the Power and Ground Leads to 4 Guage =) (allmost went to 0 guage) and im running 0 guage back to my Cap and Distro Block then 4 Guage to my amps. =) ill keep ya posted..BTW ill check in e bay Chronoz,,Thanks Guys,
Jason
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 18:33:04
Hey Chronoz..I found a 200amp alt from that guy u sent me the link to. 85-95amps at idle. I might just go a head and purchase that one from him we'll see lol Thanks
swez on 06/27/2004 20:50:46
A V-8 in that one huh... sweet little go machine.
That 85A+ at idle is a winner and 160A or more at full output will get the job done both now and when you go to a larger amp.
You mentioned the MTX 1501 for later? This amp is going to demand a fair amount of current for the power rating noted. MTX amps tend to run pretty warm/hot in loads under 4 ohms as well. Not sure what the price tag is on this amp, but the MOFO's are dual 1 ohm DVC's.
If you run a pair of these in series/parallel, (recommended) that puts your amp load at 1 ohm. The MTX 1501D WILL NOT TAKE 1 OHM LOADS. It will overheat, go into protect and be useless to you with a pair of these subs.
Consider a 1 ohm stable Class D amp for this future application. There are a few Class D's that will do 1 ohm loads... the other option would be High Current (HC) type amps. But the "HC" amps really suck up current at this power range.
If you have a budget number in mind, we can help you look for amps that will fit this sub pairing. They won't be cheap. But The 1501D is not the best choice as you would have to wire both subs in full series for a 4 ohm load. That's only 375 watts RMS per sub. Am sure you'll want more than that?
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:10:45
Thanks Swez for ur info,,,,I might have mis read but the 2 sites that i looked at for the MOFOs and the one i ordered off of says that the 12" Power Acoustik MOFO series is a dual 2 ohm impendence sub. They might have Typed it wrong?or am i just not quite up to par with terminology lol As far as the MTX 1501, thats 1501 RMS power from what i read at at 2 ohms stable. Am i mislead?..as far as the enclosure goes for my Mofos , each sub requires 2.4 CuFt Of air space, Im building a Bandpass for these subs, should pound pretty good. Dimensions so far for each side is 16x16x18 with a 3" x 6.75" port. I Respect your opinion greatly. As far as Budget goes, yah its in issue at the moment lol . I can get that MTX 1501 Brand New Shipped from a website ive ordered from for only $352 List price is around $699 I think,,PS im going to get that 200amp alt 85amp at idle. Should be good to go after that
Jason
swez on 06/27/2004 21:11:27
These subs are recommended for ported enclosures of 2.4 cf (Internal) per sub. That more than 6.0 cf of space for a pair of these monsters. Hope you have the space for that size enclosure.
The .pdf manual states these are 1+1 DVC subs for the MOFO Series. The general product sheet says 2+2 DVC design. Better confirm what you have. Anyway you slice it, a 1 or 2 ohm stable amp is your target for these bad boyz.
http://www.poweracoustik.com/mofo.html
http://www.poweracoustik.com/SUPPORT/MANUALS/PA-MOFOWoofer.pdf (Owners Manual)
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:12:20
Oh yah...also my whole interior is stripped right now haha...Tuesday im installing 2 layers of Brown Bread, should be a good improvment. Slowly but surley im learning and having a blast along the way
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:21:05
Thanks alot Swez for the help with this...Do you by chance know of a good amp i can get for around the same price as the 1501 ($350) that is a good 1-2 ohm stable amp?
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:30:59
Is Kole Audio anygood? I found one thats 1800watts RMS at 1 ohm stable..Mono Channel. But i havnt heard much about Kole Audio
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 22:11:49
Sry im leaving so many posts,everytime i go to edit a post it takes me to a totally different screen, anyways...Do you think i should Stick with a Power Acoustik Amp to go with the subs? the Power Acoustik A3000Db is rated 2300 Watts at 1ohm and is $389...Or there are some other ones too for around the same price. Any Suggestions? Im going to purchase the Amplifier tomorrow and have it here soon so i can complete my install..once im done with the Sound Deadening ill begin to build my Box, My MOFOs are going to be here tomorrow (Monday)
uochronos on 06/28/2004 03:43:27
elemtal designs has there 1200watt amp 1 or 2 ohm stable for i belive 250$ since they just released it. should be a nice amp has good specs
swez on 06/28/2004 12:58:19
Power Acoustik makes fair, but maybe not so robust amps. The eD 1200 amp mentioned by Chronos is a very good option as would be the JBL BP 1200.1.
Kole is a division of SPL Corp and they also brand Power Acoustik as well. I don't know much about them, but have looked at some of their subs and amps. Very low prices for high power amps... just not sure how well they stack up against some of the better brands.
Look:
1. http://www.justamps.com/Amp_Pages/kole/kole_hk.htm
2. http://www.justamps.com/Amp_Pages/kole/kole_hk.htm
The JBL will draw less than 115A alone at full power, is 1 or 2 ohm stable and puts out more than 1200 RMS into 1 or 2 ohm loads. It's about $300.00 maybe lower off e-bay. BTW, there will be very little difference in SPL output at 1200 RMS vs 1500 watts RMS. If you used a 2400 watt RMS amp, it would only be about +3 dB louder than the 1200 watt amp and way more current draw too.
==========================================
JBL PowerValve BP-1200.1 $299.99
Subwoofer Mono Amp
Subwoofer Mono Amp Specifications
Amplifier Type: Mono
RMS Power: 600W x 1 @ 4 ohms
THD at 4-Ohm RMS Power: 0.1%
RMS Power: 1200W x 1 @ 1 or 2 ohms
Speaker Level Inputs: Yes
Preamp Outputs: No
Built-In Crossovers: LP
Bass Boost: 0-6 dB
Frequency Response: 10-320 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 3 x 40 amps
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP12001
Note: This amp does not have a subsonic filter network. You can buy plugins for under $30.00 a pair from Harrison Labs
For your subs, this one is a good choice:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LieebxPoowP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=82600&I=069900074&o=p&a=0&cc=01&avf=N&search=F%2DMods
==========================================
Those MOFO's... I am getting mixed signals on my search for specs too. But when I read the .pdf owners manual, (link provided earlier)they clearly showed this sub to be a 1 ohm/coil DVC.
Finally, this sub was designed for ported applications. I do not know if a BP design will be good for them or not. If in doubt, contact PA and ask them what the Techies have to say on a BP design for these subs.
An incorrect BP design can rip these subs to ruin if not done properly.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/28/2004 13:00:25
Thanks Chronos, Do you know what website sells those? Later today im ordering the amplifier, I think i ill just stick with the Power Acoustik and try it out...Trial and error right? I can get it for $389 List price is about $800 and its 1 ohm stable at about 2300 watts rms i beleive. Since my subs are 1200watts RMS this am should do alright pushing em =) ..also i msged that guy on e bay to see if that alt will work for my truck, and if it couldnt if he can find a 200amp that would haha...since the electrical system including the syetem i have with that amp will need a 190++amp alt to run it all. Thanks guys for the help, any other input?
uochronos on 06/28/2004 13:15:18
www.edesignaudio.com is elemental designs site they sell factory direct only in the US... thats how the stuff is so cheap for high quality gear...
i'm sure he can find one for your truck. the great thing about that guy is its a custom alt shop they make them there. they sell them so cheap because of the quantity they are able to sell... i was very pleased with mine very high quality. going to get it tested sometimes this month and see how much juice its puting out at idle and at 2500rpm
P0werLifter on 06/28/2004 13:54:04
Thanks, Ok well he msged me back and said that the 200amp unit will not install on the stock brackets. If i wanted to purcahse the 200amp id have to do some modifying. Or he could wind me a 160amp unit for $130 plus shipping that will install in the stock brackets. The only thing is if i buy the 2300rms power acoustik amp 2300/12 = about 190amps...that 160amp alt wont make par with that kind of amperage pull from the amplifier. Any ideas? i think im going to just modify the brackets and make the 200amp work
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:10:55
ya that amp at normal volume well pull about 140-160amps and at high volumes could pull alot more then that. definatly would want to go with the 200amp... making an adaptor plate or re drilling the bracket should work... just be very pricise dont want the belt to be off kilter.
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:12:32
also on a side note just so you know in case you did not... everytime you double the RMS wattage you only gain +3db of volume thats almost inaudible at those volumes. so a 1200watt amp which would pull alot less amps would not effect loudness alot.
P0werLifter on 06/29/2004 00:34:49
Well guys, Lastnight i had written down the information and the number for the Power Acoustik Amp cause my parents are buying amp for christmas and i put it aside while i was at work and my mom got it and just bought it since i had mentioned getting it b4. So Im stuck for now but hey what the hell why not try it. Im calling around tomorrow to get the bracket for the Larger Alternator for the 200amp. Ill look at your recomendations for amps for later on. We'll see how it all goes. THanks for your help ill keep ya posted. Thanks Guys alot
Jason
uochronos on 06/29/2004 00:39:05
well a free amp is a good amp in my book:) remember the less volume and gain you use the less power it well draw.... with that much power you should be able to leave it at 50% capability and still be super loud and not drain battery all the time... enjoy the new toy:)
P0werLifter on 06/29/2004 01:04:28
LoL thanks Chronos, yah i agree..a free amp is a good amp for now lol, Once i get that 200amp alt i should be all set for a big...maybe buy the other Optima For good Measure lol but it should push the 2 twelves pretty nice. I plan on enjoying it and having fun learning =0 thanks again
swez on 06/30/2004 11:55:08
What model Power Acoustik amp are you buying?
This one? A2400DB 1
900 RMS @ 4 ohms
1400 RMS @ 2 ohms
1800 RMS @ 1 ohm
2400 watts PEAK
Dimensions: 15” x 11” x 2.3”
At 1 ohm, your RMS power to subs will be 900 watts/sub. This amp will probably draws ~ 140A at full power and much less when you are just playing things cool.
The vehicle will need about 60-75A to operate all normal electricals. If you shoot for a 200A ALT., that will give you a reserve of 125-140A. for amplifiers. Adding a larger CCA rated battery will also help store needed power for larger Bass transients. You are close to the limit with just the sub amp. Adding a 2nd interior amp will push you ober the limits of the system.
Basically, use your bass power with restraint and you'll probably do OK.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/30/2004 14:27:58
Hey Swez...i ordered the Power Acoustik 3000Db Amp to power the subs. Within the week im going to order the 200amp alternator and i already have a optima yellow top...anything else i need to do? im going to try to figure out how to run dual alternators, any ideas?
uochronos on 06/30/2004 14:40:46
when you install the alternator remember to install bigger gauge wires from alt to battery and from abtter to ground... perhaps 2 guage..
also on a side note i suggest getting a class T digital amp if/when you get a amp for mids and highs. these amps are alot more erfficient then common A/B AMP and A/B amp is 60% efficient and a T is 95% effiecient which means way much less power draw.
~Chronos
swez on 07/1/2004 09:00:53
Yes, many SPL COMPS guys run multiple ALTs & BATs. The main (OEM) ALT will power your car and smaller interior amps. The new 200A ALT can be added with some mods. Installing the proper mounting bracket, and making sure the ALT is spinning in the correct direction are key. You may even have to use a different (longer) serpintine belt to get it all working. May have to kick up the engine idle speed a tad as well.
From there, heavy gage power wire (1/0) back to your BAT(s) is in order. If you run with that PA 3000dB amp, might just need dual batteries back there. Start w/ one and see how things go.
Finally, as for modifying your engine for a 2nd ALT, might want to hit a few DB Drags and shops that do them, to get some additional ideas. We really don't cater to Super Class SPL Bass machines and all the details that will get you there. It may be best to seek some input from the guys who are deeply into this game for the key details.
Swez
P0werLifter on 07/1/2004 12:35:23
Alright that sounds like a good idea...Well i looked on summit just to see if they carried 200amp alts and they have a PowerMaster 200amp for $340..the bracket i need for the 200amp alt from the e bay guy is $110 If its the right size and then its $200 for the alternator..im going to call up Summit today and see if that Powermaster 200Amp alt will fit in the stock bracket. If it does im going to spend a little more and save me the time then start working on the dual alternator idea. Well my trucks not a SPL machine yet haha but it eventually will be. I love it Loud and Proud haha now its just spending the time to get my electrical system where it needs to be. Thanks guys Im going to look around to see if i can get some ideas on how to install the dual alts.
Replies (35)
uochronos on 06/26/2004 06:18:42
this is not my area of expertise but from what i have picked up here you need to get an isolator for the bateries its sort of a buffer inbetween the 2 batteries and the alternator which divides up where the power goes. So you do not damage the batteries. hooking them in series as you mentioned may be a bad idea although i'm not 100% sure why. also when switching to a dual battery system getting 2 new batteries that are identical is recomended. i'm sure one of the other well be along shortly and can give more detail.
ttocs on 06/26/2004 09:54:57
what size engine and alt does your truck have? You will be putting a large load on the alt and that will shorten its life.
That is a parallel scheme he is describing.
swez on 06/26/2004 11:39:42
DANGER... DANGER, WILL ROBINSON.... YOU ARE ON THE BRINK OF DISASTER !!!
This is NOT what you want to do as this will blow up both batteries. The wiring configuration (as I read it) will pit BAT 1 against BAT 2. They will buck in opposite polarities and spark like fireworks... probably blow up in your face.
When using dual batteries, they need to be wired in PARALLEL. That means.... Pos on Bat #1, to Pos on Bat #2. Neg on Bat #1, to Neg on Bat #2. This nets ~12.5 volts to your electrical system and loads of potential current storage capacity to your system. But this also place a larger load on your electricals... Ie... ALT.
Most guys will use a 2nd battery to beef up the current demand from larger amps. However, the ALT is the primary source of power,
(Watts = Voltage x Current) to run the show. If that's (ALT) not up to par, adding more loads (Batteries, CAPs & AMPLIFIERS) only makes matters worse.
Before we can really help you get to a home run, need to know what you have to work with now. Please explain your system goals, gear to install and how much ALT power you have to work with at the moment.
Since this is a truck, the ALT you have now, may be adequate to meet the install you have in mind. Adding a 2nd battery may help... but it could hurt your ALT in the long run if the ALT cannot manage all the loads being place on the system.
Say more on your Amps, ALT and BAT options in the bag now? Then we can sort out some well thought out options with you OK?
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/26/2004 12:58:57
Thanks guys..alright Swez heres the scoup, Im putting in 2 MOFO series Power Acoustik subs with a MTX 1501 Amp powering them, a 2 farad Cap and a 300Wat alpine amp powering my mids and highs. I have two Yellow Top Optima Batteries with the stock Alternator (80amp I believe) for right now. Eventually within the year im going to be purchasing a Stinger 200amp alternator for my truck. The reason i want 2 batteries is my lights are dimming with what i have in there right now and me and my buddies cant figure out why. I have a Zapco 750 powering 2 MTX 8000 with the cap and my lights dim everytime the bass hits.
Is that all the info you need? to help me out? BTW eventually i want to get my truck to compete in SPL but thats not for a while. Oh and do i need an Isolater or will it be fine if i run it in parallel
Jason
Munchiesyumm on 06/26/2004 13:58:20
What year model is this truck?
I have a 1990 Chevy Lumina with a 2.5ltr and my alt is 105amp I would think a truck would have a larger alt. Go out to you're truck with some cleaner and a rag and spray the rag and whipe off all the dust to see if it says the alt has the amp rating on it.
I have a couple suggestions on..... Get rid of those Farad Caps.. Take them back to the store and get you're money back to invest it in a larger alt. (80amps is not enough) You will destroy you're electrical system if you install everything you have now.
I would like you to read this DIY article. This will give you a good idea why the system you have will destroy you're electrical system.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t10
Please use spacing when listing products and make sure to also put down the model numbers so we can go look up the specs/details of each part.
The reason you're lights are dimming is because you don't have enough power being supplied by you're alt. When you're lights are dimming that means you're alt is working to the max and being extremely stressed. Do the math and figure out how many amps you're amplifiers pull and add them all up. Keep you're system really low until you can solve this so you don't burn anything out.
swez on 06/26/2004 14:15:52
Jason,
This is a tough one now and will only get worse when you upgrade to a larger sub amp. Why? The ALT/BAT cannot keep up with the load.... amps, lights and any other accessories you may be running like Fog lights, extra lighting and other toys installed.
That 80A Alt is struggling to fill the BAT enough to keep your Zapco amp from draining the system. The Amps alone, will draw over 70 amperes of current. Adding a CAP actually compounds the problem as it can only work when the CAP is well charged. That too, is stealing precious watts from the electrical system. In all... OVERLOADING THE ALTERNATOR AND BATTERY... BIG TIME ALREADY.
If you want to run a major Bass Machine in the near future, that ALT has got to be upgraded soon. As is, it will probably die in a few weeks and may take the present battery with it. Now, you will be forced to upgrade right?
Tell me... what are the fuse ratings of each amp you have now? Just add them up. If they are 75% or more than the rated ALT output, the only fix is to upgrade your electricals. In the meantime, use your audio system with restraint or you may find yourself stranded on the road some night with a dead electrical system.
Finally, adding dual Optima batteries in the future is a very good idea. Yes, if you did this now and used a battery charging isolator, you may get some relief by powering the sub amp off the 2nd battery and the use the primary battery to power car electricals and the smaller interior amplifier. However, isolators cannot make up for current draw the ALT cannot support. It will charge the primary starter battery first, then begin to charge the sub amp battery. I cannot say in all confidence that your present ALT can do all this very well.
A short term step that might help.... find a HO ALT that will give you say 140-160A of output for now. These are easier to find at local Parts store and much cheaper than a Stinger 200A. The good news is, GM makes several output versions that fit in the same cases. If you can get one of these for say $150.00 or so now, that will get you through until you get the bigger sub amp.
Swez
PS Some guys in SPL COMPS will run multiple ALTS and a bank of batteries. This might be where you are headed if you really get the SPL bug. For now, look for an inexpensive ALT (rebuilts are much cheaper) that will get you close to 150A.
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 00:45:31
Alright thanks alot..ill go a head and ditch the 2 battery idea for now and return the optima and try to get a hold of a high output alt b4 i go dual batteries. Id rather beef up the alternator than have it go out on me in the middle of no where haha..Thanks for your help guys sorry it was such a dumb post im still learning...its a process haha ill keep you updated and if u have any other input lemme know
swez on 06/27/2004 11:16:18
Jason,
Glad you heard our warnings! Right now, focus on beefing up your ALT supply. If you can find a form,fit & function rebuilt (120-160A) ALT for this truck, a single Optima 800+ CCA rated BAT should get you by.
Again, GM makes several output versions that are often in the same casing. They may not be spec'd in your truck, but if the mounting brackets are the same and the overall housing will fit, the only thing you may have to deal with is "re-clocking" the case to fit.
Case in point: I had a 1990 Olds Trofeo' with a (3800 series engine) and stock 108A ALT. It pooped out and I got a 120A version to drop right in. The 120 version is a larger case, but it still fit. I eventually off'd that car and now drive a 92 Buick LeSabre.
Same engine size (3800)... but before I sold the Olds, I swapped the Buick 105A ALT (stock, but almost new) and put the 120A ALT in the Buick. I did have to re-clock both ALTS to fit however. This 120A was a very tight fit in the Buick... but with patience and some kind mutterings under my breath... I got it in there. YIPPY SKIPPY. You may be able to do the same thing.
Also, when you get in there to swap ALTs', upgrade the power feed wires from ALT/BAT, BAT/GND and add a 2nd engine block to body braded ground. Use #4 gage wires for the ALT/BAT and BAT/GND. Most good autoparts store sell upgrade kits to do this. I hope your Optima has both side and top post terminals. This will make all your wiring so much easier to do and the larger wires will pass more power to give a best you can get... from your current and new electricals add ons.
Swez
uochronos on 06/27/2004 14:34:55
i just got my 200amp alternator off ebay with a lifetime warranty for 200$ i would check around on there for one.
uochronos on 06/27/2004 15:02:09
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=motorcityreman&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50
this is the guy i bought mine from if he doesn2t list one for yours just ask them they put one on ebay specificaly for me for my ranger. btw i didnt see it what engine is in your truck and i well look around for an alternator a bit
swez on 06/27/2004 18:17:14
I would hazzard to guess he has the 4.3 liter V-6. That was the largest engine size I noted on S/T style Chevy trucks off another site.
Let PL confirm that.... but that's my guess.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 18:21:26
Nope Swez...i got the beefy 5.7 Ltr V8 350 Engine hehe =) alrighty today i took back the battery..got my money back to my acct..and tomorrow if i dont find anything better im going to order a 140amp alt from Summit for only 130 =). And Swez..already a step ahead lol i had beefed up all the Power and Ground Leads to 4 Guage =) (allmost went to 0 guage) and im running 0 guage back to my Cap and Distro Block then 4 Guage to my amps. =) ill keep ya posted..BTW ill check in e bay Chronoz,,Thanks Guys,
Jason
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 18:33:04
Hey Chronoz..I found a 200amp alt from that guy u sent me the link to. 85-95amps at idle. I might just go a head and purchase that one from him we'll see lol Thanks
swez on 06/27/2004 20:50:46
A V-8 in that one huh... sweet little go machine.
That 85A+ at idle is a winner and 160A or more at full output will get the job done both now and when you go to a larger amp.
You mentioned the MTX 1501 for later? This amp is going to demand a fair amount of current for the power rating noted. MTX amps tend to run pretty warm/hot in loads under 4 ohms as well. Not sure what the price tag is on this amp, but the MOFO's are dual 1 ohm DVC's.
If you run a pair of these in series/parallel, (recommended) that puts your amp load at 1 ohm. The MTX 1501D WILL NOT TAKE 1 OHM LOADS. It will overheat, go into protect and be useless to you with a pair of these subs.
Consider a 1 ohm stable Class D amp for this future application. There are a few Class D's that will do 1 ohm loads... the other option would be High Current (HC) type amps. But the "HC" amps really suck up current at this power range.
If you have a budget number in mind, we can help you look for amps that will fit this sub pairing. They won't be cheap. But The 1501D is not the best choice as you would have to wire both subs in full series for a 4 ohm load. That's only 375 watts RMS per sub. Am sure you'll want more than that?
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:10:45
Thanks Swez for ur info,,,,I might have mis read but the 2 sites that i looked at for the MOFOs and the one i ordered off of says that the 12" Power Acoustik MOFO series is a dual 2 ohm impendence sub. They might have Typed it wrong?or am i just not quite up to par with terminology lol As far as the MTX 1501, thats 1501 RMS power from what i read at at 2 ohms stable. Am i mislead?..as far as the enclosure goes for my Mofos , each sub requires 2.4 CuFt Of air space, Im building a Bandpass for these subs, should pound pretty good. Dimensions so far for each side is 16x16x18 with a 3" x 6.75" port. I Respect your opinion greatly. As far as Budget goes, yah its in issue at the moment lol . I can get that MTX 1501 Brand New Shipped from a website ive ordered from for only $352 List price is around $699 I think,,PS im going to get that 200amp alt 85amp at idle. Should be good to go after that
Jason
swez on 06/27/2004 21:11:27
These subs are recommended for ported enclosures of 2.4 cf (Internal) per sub. That more than 6.0 cf of space for a pair of these monsters. Hope you have the space for that size enclosure.
The .pdf manual states these are 1+1 DVC subs for the MOFO Series. The general product sheet says 2+2 DVC design. Better confirm what you have. Anyway you slice it, a 1 or 2 ohm stable amp is your target for these bad boyz.
http://www.poweracoustik.com/mofo.html
http://www.poweracoustik.com/SUPPORT/MANUALS/PA-MOFOWoofer.pdf (Owners Manual)
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:12:20
Oh yah...also my whole interior is stripped right now haha...Tuesday im installing 2 layers of Brown Bread, should be a good improvment. Slowly but surley im learning and having a blast along the way
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:21:05
Thanks alot Swez for the help with this...Do you by chance know of a good amp i can get for around the same price as the 1501 ($350) that is a good 1-2 ohm stable amp?
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 21:30:59
Is Kole Audio anygood? I found one thats 1800watts RMS at 1 ohm stable..Mono Channel. But i havnt heard much about Kole Audio
P0werLifter on 06/27/2004 22:11:49
Sry im leaving so many posts,everytime i go to edit a post it takes me to a totally different screen, anyways...Do you think i should Stick with a Power Acoustik Amp to go with the subs? the Power Acoustik A3000Db is rated 2300 Watts at 1ohm and is $389...Or there are some other ones too for around the same price. Any Suggestions? Im going to purchase the Amplifier tomorrow and have it here soon so i can complete my install..once im done with the Sound Deadening ill begin to build my Box, My MOFOs are going to be here tomorrow (Monday)
uochronos on 06/28/2004 03:43:27
elemtal designs has there 1200watt amp 1 or 2 ohm stable for i belive 250$ since they just released it. should be a nice amp has good specs
swez on 06/28/2004 12:58:19
Power Acoustik makes fair, but maybe not so robust amps. The eD 1200 amp mentioned by Chronos is a very good option as would be the JBL BP 1200.1.
Kole is a division of SPL Corp and they also brand Power Acoustik as well. I don't know much about them, but have looked at some of their subs and amps. Very low prices for high power amps... just not sure how well they stack up against some of the better brands.
Look:
1. http://www.justamps.com/Amp_Pages/kole/kole_hk.htm
2. http://www.justamps.com/Amp_Pages/kole/kole_hk.htm
The JBL will draw less than 115A alone at full power, is 1 or 2 ohm stable and puts out more than 1200 RMS into 1 or 2 ohm loads. It's about $300.00 maybe lower off e-bay. BTW, there will be very little difference in SPL output at 1200 RMS vs 1500 watts RMS. If you used a 2400 watt RMS amp, it would only be about +3 dB louder than the 1200 watt amp and way more current draw too.
==========================================
JBL PowerValve BP-1200.1 $299.99
Subwoofer Mono Amp
Subwoofer Mono Amp Specifications
Amplifier Type: Mono
RMS Power: 600W x 1 @ 4 ohms
THD at 4-Ohm RMS Power: 0.1%
RMS Power: 1200W x 1 @ 1 or 2 ohms
Speaker Level Inputs: Yes
Preamp Outputs: No
Built-In Crossovers: LP
Bass Boost: 0-6 dB
Frequency Response: 10-320 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 3 x 40 amps
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLBP12001
Note: This amp does not have a subsonic filter network. You can buy plugins for under $30.00 a pair from Harrison Labs
For your subs, this one is a good choice:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-LieebxPoowP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?s=0&c=3&g=82600&I=069900074&o=p&a=0&cc=01&avf=N&search=F%2DMods
==========================================
Those MOFO's... I am getting mixed signals on my search for specs too. But when I read the .pdf owners manual, (link provided earlier)they clearly showed this sub to be a 1 ohm/coil DVC.
Finally, this sub was designed for ported applications. I do not know if a BP design will be good for them or not. If in doubt, contact PA and ask them what the Techies have to say on a BP design for these subs.
An incorrect BP design can rip these subs to ruin if not done properly.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/28/2004 13:00:25
Thanks Chronos, Do you know what website sells those? Later today im ordering the amplifier, I think i ill just stick with the Power Acoustik and try it out...Trial and error right? I can get it for $389 List price is about $800 and its 1 ohm stable at about 2300 watts rms i beleive. Since my subs are 1200watts RMS this am should do alright pushing em =) ..also i msged that guy on e bay to see if that alt will work for my truck, and if it couldnt if he can find a 200amp that would haha...since the electrical system including the syetem i have with that amp will need a 190++amp alt to run it all. Thanks guys for the help, any other input?
uochronos on 06/28/2004 13:15:18
www.edesignaudio.com is elemental designs site they sell factory direct only in the US... thats how the stuff is so cheap for high quality gear...
i'm sure he can find one for your truck. the great thing about that guy is its a custom alt shop they make them there. they sell them so cheap because of the quantity they are able to sell... i was very pleased with mine very high quality. going to get it tested sometimes this month and see how much juice its puting out at idle and at 2500rpm
P0werLifter on 06/28/2004 13:54:04
Thanks, Ok well he msged me back and said that the 200amp unit will not install on the stock brackets. If i wanted to purcahse the 200amp id have to do some modifying. Or he could wind me a 160amp unit for $130 plus shipping that will install in the stock brackets. The only thing is if i buy the 2300rms power acoustik amp 2300/12 = about 190amps...that 160amp alt wont make par with that kind of amperage pull from the amplifier. Any ideas? i think im going to just modify the brackets and make the 200amp work
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:10:55
ya that amp at normal volume well pull about 140-160amps and at high volumes could pull alot more then that. definatly would want to go with the 200amp... making an adaptor plate or re drilling the bracket should work... just be very pricise dont want the belt to be off kilter.
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:12:32
also on a side note just so you know in case you did not... everytime you double the RMS wattage you only gain +3db of volume thats almost inaudible at those volumes. so a 1200watt amp which would pull alot less amps would not effect loudness alot.
P0werLifter on 06/29/2004 00:34:49
Well guys, Lastnight i had written down the information and the number for the Power Acoustik Amp cause my parents are buying amp for christmas and i put it aside while i was at work and my mom got it and just bought it since i had mentioned getting it b4. So Im stuck for now but hey what the hell why not try it. Im calling around tomorrow to get the bracket for the Larger Alternator for the 200amp. Ill look at your recomendations for amps for later on. We'll see how it all goes. THanks for your help ill keep ya posted. Thanks Guys alot
Jason
uochronos on 06/29/2004 00:39:05
well a free amp is a good amp in my book:) remember the less volume and gain you use the less power it well draw.... with that much power you should be able to leave it at 50% capability and still be super loud and not drain battery all the time... enjoy the new toy:)
P0werLifter on 06/29/2004 01:04:28
LoL thanks Chronos, yah i agree..a free amp is a good amp for now lol, Once i get that 200amp alt i should be all set for a big...maybe buy the other Optima For good Measure lol but it should push the 2 twelves pretty nice. I plan on enjoying it and having fun learning =0 thanks again
swez on 06/30/2004 11:55:08
What model Power Acoustik amp are you buying?
This one? A2400DB 1
900 RMS @ 4 ohms
1400 RMS @ 2 ohms
1800 RMS @ 1 ohm
2400 watts PEAK
Dimensions: 15” x 11” x 2.3”
At 1 ohm, your RMS power to subs will be 900 watts/sub. This amp will probably draws ~ 140A at full power and much less when you are just playing things cool.
The vehicle will need about 60-75A to operate all normal electricals. If you shoot for a 200A ALT., that will give you a reserve of 125-140A. for amplifiers. Adding a larger CCA rated battery will also help store needed power for larger Bass transients. You are close to the limit with just the sub amp. Adding a 2nd interior amp will push you ober the limits of the system.
Basically, use your bass power with restraint and you'll probably do OK.
Swez
P0werLifter on 06/30/2004 14:27:58
Hey Swez...i ordered the Power Acoustik 3000Db Amp to power the subs. Within the week im going to order the 200amp alternator and i already have a optima yellow top...anything else i need to do? im going to try to figure out how to run dual alternators, any ideas?
uochronos on 06/30/2004 14:40:46
when you install the alternator remember to install bigger gauge wires from alt to battery and from abtter to ground... perhaps 2 guage..
also on a side note i suggest getting a class T digital amp if/when you get a amp for mids and highs. these amps are alot more erfficient then common A/B AMP and A/B amp is 60% efficient and a T is 95% effiecient which means way much less power draw.
~Chronos
swez on 07/1/2004 09:00:53
Yes, many SPL COMPS guys run multiple ALTs & BATs. The main (OEM) ALT will power your car and smaller interior amps. The new 200A ALT can be added with some mods. Installing the proper mounting bracket, and making sure the ALT is spinning in the correct direction are key. You may even have to use a different (longer) serpintine belt to get it all working. May have to kick up the engine idle speed a tad as well.
From there, heavy gage power wire (1/0) back to your BAT(s) is in order. If you run with that PA 3000dB amp, might just need dual batteries back there. Start w/ one and see how things go.
Finally, as for modifying your engine for a 2nd ALT, might want to hit a few DB Drags and shops that do them, to get some additional ideas. We really don't cater to Super Class SPL Bass machines and all the details that will get you there. It may be best to seek some input from the guys who are deeply into this game for the key details.
Swez
P0werLifter on 07/1/2004 12:35:23
Alright that sounds like a good idea...Well i looked on summit just to see if they carried 200amp alts and they have a PowerMaster 200amp for $340..the bracket i need for the 200amp alt from the e bay guy is $110 If its the right size and then its $200 for the alternator..im going to call up Summit today and see if that Powermaster 200Amp alt will fit in the stock bracket. If it does im going to spend a little more and save me the time then start working on the dual alternator idea. Well my trucks not a SPL machine yet haha but it eventually will be. I love it Loud and Proud haha now its just spending the time to get my electrical system where it needs to be. Thanks guys Im going to look around to see if i can get some ideas on how to install the dual alts.
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
