alrite well i have my bass all sorted out but now that i have my subs in that means good by to my good pair of 6 by 9s which where supplying most of the sound. the rest was coming from the paper cone 6 1/2 i already have installed in the doors. i would like to replace them with 6 1/2 so that i could use the same holes in the doors but i need a good pair that would be relatively easy to find in a smaller city
Replies (10)
swez on 06/22/2004 20:02:17
Check out Alpine, Infinity, Rockford, Kicker and Polk. These are easy brands to find in most decent audio stores. Yes, there are better brands out there... but if you want good sound and not drop a ton of cash, these will do well.
How much amping power (RMS) are you planning to use on them?
Coaxials are a good way to go for lower budget applications. But if you want high SQ, high SPL... consider the CDT CL-61a COMPONENT series. They are actually a great buy off the web for $150.00 a pair.
With these Comps, a decent 2 channel amp will get the most from them. Say 50-75 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms will do the job very well. This is one of my top 3 picks in this price range.
www.thezeb.com
Swez
oldmazda on 06/22/2004 20:28:04
well i was thinking about just running them right off of the deck because they would be the only thing running off of it. the full 200 watt output would be taken by the 6 1/2s wouldn't it? if it isn't enough i could always run the cables around and wire in my old alpine amp. this one doesn't have all that impressive power either though it has 100 watts per chanel into 2 ohm or 50 per chanel into 4 ohms. what do you think? also you mentioned some brands above for 6 1/2 that would be available in a store, are there any particular model from any of those that really stands out?
ttocs on 06/22/2004 22:44:28
it doesn't work that way. 200 watts is the max pwr with a high ILS (if lightning strikes) factor. Most decks will put out 12-25 watts rms. Even a small offboard amp will put out better pwr then the highest rated deck.
Take a few cd's that you are familiar with to your local dealer and listen to a few different sets. Speakers will have a wide difference and what I like you may not..........
ttocs on 06/22/2004 22:45:00
oh, but any of the brands mentioned above will do fine, we can just find them for you much cheaper....
swez on 06/23/2004 09:17:24
What 2 channel Alpine amp do you have hanging around for the front stage speakers? (Model #)
As ttocs mentioned, your HU amps are not very strong. Stock factory HU's are usually under 15 watts RMS per channel unless they are boosted buy internally mounted amps. (Ie: Bose, JBL or Infinity Premium Sound systems)
Generally speaking, Aftermarket amps are generally superior to HU amps in clarity, crossovers, features and power. A 50 x 2 watt (RMS) amp will help alot to improve interior sound. You can anticipate ~+6dB/channel of extra SPL using the amp noted above, VS a HU powered speaker only.
Swez
oldmazda on 06/24/2004 15:58:31
the model of amp i have is an alpine mrv-t505, its speced out at 50 by 2 chanells at 4 ohms, which is pretty much the power rating you were figuring i would need. to wire in a second amp i might have some dificulties though, i only have a single av jack at the back of my head unit and i'm not 100% sure how i would do this, also would i just splice a second remote wire to the one that is attached to my other amp?
swez on 06/24/2004 18:59:22
That amp would be usable to drive your front speakers. Since you only have 1 set of RCA outs in that HU, there are a few choices you can use to improve that situation:
1. Use the front speaker outputs (HU... Front L&R) to feed 2 channel amp inputs (high signal inputs) and then amp outputs to new door speakers. This install method is the easiest, but sometimes the wires to amp input will pick up electrical noise and pass that noise to speakers.
(No costs involved... just time and wiring)
===================================================
2. Convert the front L&R speaker outputs of your HU to RCA, line levels (Line out converter) which then feeds to amp RCA inputs. Amp outputs to speakers.
(Moderate cost for a decent LOC... $15-25 for LOC and some RCA cables)
==================================================
3. Employ RCA type "Y" splitter cables from the exsisting HU RCA output jacks. Feed RCA level signals to a pair of amps. The "Y" splitter
is a simple patch cable you can buy or make yourself. It has 1 male RCA and a pair of female RCA's with a modest length of cabling between them. The key drawback here... you will not have fader control from the HU to adjust front & rear output volumes. That would have to be done manually by the amp gains on each amp.
(Low cost here too, under $10.00 for all jacks and wiring if you build your own)
===================================================
4. Converting the entire HU to LOC, 4 channel RCA's outputs, would be a good option and leave you 1 pair of RCA's in the HU for future use.
Not too expensive either... about $30.00 plus RCA cables)
===================================================
There are other methods available too...
A. Buying a better HU (4 RCA outs min.)
B. Installing a 2 in:4 out Line driver will also work, (a bit pricey though) but you will get more RCA line voltage to each amp this way
That's about all I can think of for now... pick a path and ask more questions if needed... before you dive in OK?
Swez
oldmazda on 06/24/2004 19:35:24
i like the sound of the first method 2 things that i love to hear which is easy and cheap. the thing that i'm not sure about is how i would attatch the left and right speaker wires to the amp as you said i would need to. i have a single RCA input in my amp along with speaker output and power supply stuff so i'm assuming i'll have to attatch the speakers to the RCA input i just don't really know how.
swez on 06/25/2004 09:26:24
That's where the LOC comes into play. If your amp does not have high level (speaker voltage) inputs, then we have to insert a device that brings the speaker voltage down to a usable RCA input voltage.
LOC's can be installed right at the HU speaker outputs and then the RCA lines included, attach to the amp inputs. I have seen 2 and 4 channel LOC's and prices range from under $20.00 to almost $40.00. It just depends on how complex the device is.
Better LOC's have a voltage output control pots. This allows one to adjust the RCA signal voltage from 0.5 - 9.0 volts. The good ones also have isolation transformers to prevent noise from entering the system as well.
Here's a short list of LOC makers to look at:
1. http://www.davidnavone.com/adaptor_products.htm
2. http://google-cnet.com.com/4014-6730_9-30709701.html?part=google-cnet&subj=line_out_converter&tag=196209
3. http://www.valcoelectronics.com/caudio/lineout.htm
4. http://www.procarstereo.com/product.jsp?product_id=1681
5. http://www.procarstereo.com/product.jsp?product_id=1682
This is a short list of what is out there. The main things to look for in a quality LOC are:
a. Variable output control (+2.0 - 4.0 volts range is good)
b. Noise isolation (transformer isolated noise decoupler)
c. A package that is easy to install, setup and hide in or under the dash
Hope that helps!
Swez
oldmazda on 06/25/2004 18:54:41
this seems like just a little too much work for my old deck. i've decided to replace it, its alot easier and i was due for a replacement anyways this one is much too far out of date. i don't have the cash right this instant but i think i might start shopping around for a new one. i'm not in a big hurry it probably will only be about a month or 2 untill i get one but if you can think of a decent one off the top of your head i'd like some suggestions from you guys who actually know car audio, and your not just a salesperson trying to get me to buy the most expensive thing out there. i don't really need something with all too many features or anything just something that has what i need and is reasonably priced.
Replies (10)
swez on 06/22/2004 20:02:17
Check out Alpine, Infinity, Rockford, Kicker and Polk. These are easy brands to find in most decent audio stores. Yes, there are better brands out there... but if you want good sound and not drop a ton of cash, these will do well.
How much amping power (RMS) are you planning to use on them?
Coaxials are a good way to go for lower budget applications. But if you want high SQ, high SPL... consider the CDT CL-61a COMPONENT series. They are actually a great buy off the web for $150.00 a pair.
With these Comps, a decent 2 channel amp will get the most from them. Say 50-75 watts RMS x 2 @ 4 ohms will do the job very well. This is one of my top 3 picks in this price range.
www.thezeb.com
Swez
oldmazda on 06/22/2004 20:28:04
well i was thinking about just running them right off of the deck because they would be the only thing running off of it. the full 200 watt output would be taken by the 6 1/2s wouldn't it? if it isn't enough i could always run the cables around and wire in my old alpine amp. this one doesn't have all that impressive power either though it has 100 watts per chanel into 2 ohm or 50 per chanel into 4 ohms. what do you think? also you mentioned some brands above for 6 1/2 that would be available in a store, are there any particular model from any of those that really stands out?
ttocs on 06/22/2004 22:44:28
it doesn't work that way. 200 watts is the max pwr with a high ILS (if lightning strikes) factor. Most decks will put out 12-25 watts rms. Even a small offboard amp will put out better pwr then the highest rated deck.
Take a few cd's that you are familiar with to your local dealer and listen to a few different sets. Speakers will have a wide difference and what I like you may not..........
ttocs on 06/22/2004 22:45:00
oh, but any of the brands mentioned above will do fine, we can just find them for you much cheaper....
swez on 06/23/2004 09:17:24
What 2 channel Alpine amp do you have hanging around for the front stage speakers? (Model #)
As ttocs mentioned, your HU amps are not very strong. Stock factory HU's are usually under 15 watts RMS per channel unless they are boosted buy internally mounted amps. (Ie: Bose, JBL or Infinity Premium Sound systems)
Generally speaking, Aftermarket amps are generally superior to HU amps in clarity, crossovers, features and power. A 50 x 2 watt (RMS) amp will help alot to improve interior sound. You can anticipate ~+6dB/channel of extra SPL using the amp noted above, VS a HU powered speaker only.
Swez
oldmazda on 06/24/2004 15:58:31
the model of amp i have is an alpine mrv-t505, its speced out at 50 by 2 chanells at 4 ohms, which is pretty much the power rating you were figuring i would need. to wire in a second amp i might have some dificulties though, i only have a single av jack at the back of my head unit and i'm not 100% sure how i would do this, also would i just splice a second remote wire to the one that is attached to my other amp?
swez on 06/24/2004 18:59:22
That amp would be usable to drive your front speakers. Since you only have 1 set of RCA outs in that HU, there are a few choices you can use to improve that situation:
1. Use the front speaker outputs (HU... Front L&R) to feed 2 channel amp inputs (high signal inputs) and then amp outputs to new door speakers. This install method is the easiest, but sometimes the wires to amp input will pick up electrical noise and pass that noise to speakers.
(No costs involved... just time and wiring)
===================================================
2. Convert the front L&R speaker outputs of your HU to RCA, line levels (Line out converter) which then feeds to amp RCA inputs. Amp outputs to speakers.
(Moderate cost for a decent LOC... $15-25 for LOC and some RCA cables)
==================================================
3. Employ RCA type "Y" splitter cables from the exsisting HU RCA output jacks. Feed RCA level signals to a pair of amps. The "Y" splitter
is a simple patch cable you can buy or make yourself. It has 1 male RCA and a pair of female RCA's with a modest length of cabling between them. The key drawback here... you will not have fader control from the HU to adjust front & rear output volumes. That would have to be done manually by the amp gains on each amp.
(Low cost here too, under $10.00 for all jacks and wiring if you build your own)
===================================================
4. Converting the entire HU to LOC, 4 channel RCA's outputs, would be a good option and leave you 1 pair of RCA's in the HU for future use.
Not too expensive either... about $30.00 plus RCA cables)
===================================================
There are other methods available too...
A. Buying a better HU (4 RCA outs min.)
B. Installing a 2 in:4 out Line driver will also work, (a bit pricey though) but you will get more RCA line voltage to each amp this way
That's about all I can think of for now... pick a path and ask more questions if needed... before you dive in OK?
Swez
oldmazda on 06/24/2004 19:35:24
i like the sound of the first method 2 things that i love to hear which is easy and cheap. the thing that i'm not sure about is how i would attatch the left and right speaker wires to the amp as you said i would need to. i have a single RCA input in my amp along with speaker output and power supply stuff so i'm assuming i'll have to attatch the speakers to the RCA input i just don't really know how.
swez on 06/25/2004 09:26:24
That's where the LOC comes into play. If your amp does not have high level (speaker voltage) inputs, then we have to insert a device that brings the speaker voltage down to a usable RCA input voltage.
LOC's can be installed right at the HU speaker outputs and then the RCA lines included, attach to the amp inputs. I have seen 2 and 4 channel LOC's and prices range from under $20.00 to almost $40.00. It just depends on how complex the device is.
Better LOC's have a voltage output control pots. This allows one to adjust the RCA signal voltage from 0.5 - 9.0 volts. The good ones also have isolation transformers to prevent noise from entering the system as well.
Here's a short list of LOC makers to look at:
1. http://www.davidnavone.com/adaptor_products.htm
2. http://google-cnet.com.com/4014-6730_9-30709701.html?part=google-cnet&subj=line_out_converter&tag=196209
3. http://www.valcoelectronics.com/caudio/lineout.htm
4. http://www.procarstereo.com/product.jsp?product_id=1681
5. http://www.procarstereo.com/product.jsp?product_id=1682
This is a short list of what is out there. The main things to look for in a quality LOC are:
a. Variable output control (+2.0 - 4.0 volts range is good)
b. Noise isolation (transformer isolated noise decoupler)
c. A package that is easy to install, setup and hide in or under the dash
Hope that helps!
Swez
oldmazda on 06/25/2004 18:54:41
this seems like just a little too much work for my old deck. i've decided to replace it, its alot easier and i was due for a replacement anyways this one is much too far out of date. i don't have the cash right this instant but i think i might start shopping around for a new one. i'm not in a big hurry it probably will only be about a month or 2 untill i get one but if you can think of a decent one off the top of your head i'd like some suggestions from you guys who actually know car audio, and your not just a salesperson trying to get me to buy the most expensive thing out there. i don't really need something with all too many features or anything just something that has what i need and is reasonably priced.
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