Its been awhile since i've been here. I guess thats what happens when you get out of highschool and have a girlfriend. But anyways is it bad if your cone of your sub is to hot to touch for more then 2 sec after your done playing it? I usually have it cranked up most of the time. Its a 12" Brahma in a 2cuft ported box
Replies (14)
ttocs on 06/18/2004 06:05:33
we cranked on a PG sub that was in the sound board for a long to try and blow it to get it replaced. The cone of it got very warm(and the room stunk!) but it never blew. I can't say you are doing something good for the speaker...
swez on 06/18/2004 12:50:39
Make sure there is sufficient airflow through the cooling vent in this sub. Some subs come shipped with vent plugs and this must be removed before using the sub. Check that out if unsure.
Also, in ported designs, the sub cone does not move nearly as much (in and out) as in sealed designs. Less cone movement means less air flowing through the cooling vent... especially near the porting frequency range and below that point.
1. Do you have a sub sonic filter on the amp to block out say 25 Hz and below signals? Should have!
2. Is the cooling vent plug removed from rear magnet vent hole? (if applies)
3. What amp are you using to power this sub? (specically, RMS power at 1 or 4 ohms)
Swez
PS Heat is an enemy of speakers. Too much power (SPL) will cause excess heat to break down a subs' voice coils, spider, or adhesives that keep them all together.
ryan on 06/19/2004 14:32:31
I have a 30hz subsonic filter on my JBL 1200.1. I have the sub wired for 4ohms which puts out 600+wrms. Adire said in this box the brahma can take either 400w rms or 400w max i cant remember. But they said if i watch the gain it will be fine with this amp. And the Vent thing was removed.
uochronos on 06/19/2004 15:24:04
if its a 400watt max in that box then that is why the sub is getting hot at high volumes. that would indicate that at high volume your giving it around 400watts rms more then it needs. if its 400watts rms then it should be ok at that volume and we well have to wait and see what swez or ttocs says
swez on 06/19/2004 17:53:56
I suspect you are feeding it more than 400 RMS here. Depends on the HU RCA output voltage and where the amp gain is set.
Since you are running this amp/sub @ 4 ohms, the amp will still put out 600 + watts RMS into a 4 ohm load. If it's getting that hot, either dial back on the gain a tad more or figure out a way to cool the voice coils a bit better. That's not normal for a sub to run that hot... even though the ported specs say 2.0 cf. Too much power input here champ!
Swez
PS Remove the sub and do a close inspection of spider/coil. Look for char marks on the spider or separation of coil from spider. Also, have a real close look at that vent hole. Make sure there are no obstructions in the vent hole. Spiders (Arachnids... 8-legged spiders) love to build webs in small orifices. That's enough to muck up the works. You might find a web or a toasted spider in the vent hole.
racerbizoehm on 06/25/2004 19:08:35
I wish I had the power to make subs warm lol
uochronos on 06/25/2004 21:03:08
lol no you dont even at 1000watts a speaker should not get hot in the proper box a spear that can handle the amount of power your giving it should not get very warm. the amp maybe but not the speaker with as much air as a big sub moves it should keep pretty cool at 500watts my current sub stay withen a few degrees of room tempeture usualy unless of course its cold out or something hehe,.
ttocs on 06/25/2004 21:16:31
I disagree.
I have never taken the time to measure how hot it is(as I suspect many have not), but I would hazard a guess to say that all speakers will get warm, possibly hot. A speaker converts electrical energy to mechanical energy, unless it was 100% efficient, it will generate heat. Not to mention that the motor portion of the speaker will get very little airflow since it is in a box. Now throw in that the ambiant airtemp in a car can get well over 100 on a good summer day, it will only get hotter when played.........
uochronos on 06/25/2004 22:05:24
i meant more the cone adn what not i'm awear that the motor part of it but i belive this guy was having the issue of the cone getting "Hot!" i have never had a sub get hot to the touch even when played long at least the part you can actualy feel... my alpines rarely get i would say more then maybe 80 or 90 degrees adn that i would think was a high guess thats assuming the room temp of 70-75.... i have never touched them and gone wow thats hot. i was just stating to the fellow who responded so he knew that he didnt want enough power to get the sub "hot" because thats not good on it if the cone area is getting hot. i'm assuming thats 90-100 degrees is hot now if the cone is that hot then the VC and what not must be extremly hot...
i did not mean to indicat that speakers dont get warm just that they shouldnt get Hot unless you are running them extremly hard or something is wrong.
ttocs on 06/26/2004 10:02:01
Wait, I'm sorry. I am not trying to call anyone out or tell them they are wrong. I was just putting in my .02 in the discussion. As I said I have never really tested to see if the cones of my speakers were warm, and I doubt many people have. This is actually a question that I have never seen, and a question that I have never pondered. Has anyone checked their cone temp? Try it out and let us know people, enquiring minds want to know.
racerbizoehm on 06/26/2004 11:52:11
I would worry when they start to smoke and smell, then I would think something is wrong lol
uochronos on 06/26/2004 17:02:53
didnt think you where calling me out or anything ttocs i just get a little passionate in discusions believe me i value your opinion and didnt mean to look like i was defensive... maybe if i can sneak one out of work i well use one of the thermoeters we use to test cooler tempetures and test my cone of my sub after it has been running for a bit.. very nifty thermometers it uses some sort of laser or infra red never really looked into them but you just point it at something withen 6 feet and it tells you the surface temp very acuratly.
even without someing or a smell heat is any electronics enemey the cool it runs the better... i would assume a sub has a shorter life in a very hot climate such as ttocs's phoenix area as compared to a moderate climate of about 70 all year. since he was right it would only get hotter from what ever the air temp is....
hmm i almsot wonder if installing a 12v liquid cooling system from a fancy computer would help in a compitition SPL system like inside the box close to the motor parts of the sub.... it would be very hard to mount and do well. interesting thought though. it is my understanding anyway that a sub usualy hits its highest SPL reading on the first couple trys before it is warm....
this is a very interesting topic though because like ttocs said its not something many people check or at least i have heard talk about.
swez on 06/28/2004 13:12:38
Anyone ever heard about thermal compression characteristics of a speaker? When at ambient temperatures, the resistance of the coil is nominal per the inductance properties of the coil.
As the VC heats up, resistance will also go up and power output will begin to drop as internal resistance of the Coil goes up.
Why not call Dan Wiggins at Adire and ask him what might be causing this and any suggestions to remedy same. I think he of most any, would know how to work this one out.
Swez
PS What is the port tuning frequency of you Brahma now? A 30 Hz., HP filter may be too low or the slope needs to be much higher than 12dB/octave as are the F-Mods. Again, Dan can answers this one better then we can.
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:14:16
ahh interesting swez i never thought of it like that but that completely makes sice.. all kinds of little switches clicking in my brain right now:) i love moments like that
Replies (14)
ttocs on 06/18/2004 06:05:33
we cranked on a PG sub that was in the sound board for a long to try and blow it to get it replaced. The cone of it got very warm(and the room stunk!) but it never blew. I can't say you are doing something good for the speaker...
swez on 06/18/2004 12:50:39
Make sure there is sufficient airflow through the cooling vent in this sub. Some subs come shipped with vent plugs and this must be removed before using the sub. Check that out if unsure.
Also, in ported designs, the sub cone does not move nearly as much (in and out) as in sealed designs. Less cone movement means less air flowing through the cooling vent... especially near the porting frequency range and below that point.
1. Do you have a sub sonic filter on the amp to block out say 25 Hz and below signals? Should have!
2. Is the cooling vent plug removed from rear magnet vent hole? (if applies)
3. What amp are you using to power this sub? (specically, RMS power at 1 or 4 ohms)
Swez
PS Heat is an enemy of speakers. Too much power (SPL) will cause excess heat to break down a subs' voice coils, spider, or adhesives that keep them all together.
ryan on 06/19/2004 14:32:31
I have a 30hz subsonic filter on my JBL 1200.1. I have the sub wired for 4ohms which puts out 600+wrms. Adire said in this box the brahma can take either 400w rms or 400w max i cant remember. But they said if i watch the gain it will be fine with this amp. And the Vent thing was removed.
uochronos on 06/19/2004 15:24:04
if its a 400watt max in that box then that is why the sub is getting hot at high volumes. that would indicate that at high volume your giving it around 400watts rms more then it needs. if its 400watts rms then it should be ok at that volume and we well have to wait and see what swez or ttocs says
swez on 06/19/2004 17:53:56
I suspect you are feeding it more than 400 RMS here. Depends on the HU RCA output voltage and where the amp gain is set.
Since you are running this amp/sub @ 4 ohms, the amp will still put out 600 + watts RMS into a 4 ohm load. If it's getting that hot, either dial back on the gain a tad more or figure out a way to cool the voice coils a bit better. That's not normal for a sub to run that hot... even though the ported specs say 2.0 cf. Too much power input here champ!
Swez
PS Remove the sub and do a close inspection of spider/coil. Look for char marks on the spider or separation of coil from spider. Also, have a real close look at that vent hole. Make sure there are no obstructions in the vent hole. Spiders (Arachnids... 8-legged spiders) love to build webs in small orifices. That's enough to muck up the works. You might find a web or a toasted spider in the vent hole.
racerbizoehm on 06/25/2004 19:08:35
I wish I had the power to make subs warm lol
uochronos on 06/25/2004 21:03:08
lol no you dont even at 1000watts a speaker should not get hot in the proper box a spear that can handle the amount of power your giving it should not get very warm. the amp maybe but not the speaker with as much air as a big sub moves it should keep pretty cool at 500watts my current sub stay withen a few degrees of room tempeture usualy unless of course its cold out or something hehe,.
ttocs on 06/25/2004 21:16:31
I disagree.
I have never taken the time to measure how hot it is(as I suspect many have not), but I would hazard a guess to say that all speakers will get warm, possibly hot. A speaker converts electrical energy to mechanical energy, unless it was 100% efficient, it will generate heat. Not to mention that the motor portion of the speaker will get very little airflow since it is in a box. Now throw in that the ambiant airtemp in a car can get well over 100 on a good summer day, it will only get hotter when played.........
uochronos on 06/25/2004 22:05:24
i meant more the cone adn what not i'm awear that the motor part of it but i belive this guy was having the issue of the cone getting "Hot!" i have never had a sub get hot to the touch even when played long at least the part you can actualy feel... my alpines rarely get i would say more then maybe 80 or 90 degrees adn that i would think was a high guess thats assuming the room temp of 70-75.... i have never touched them and gone wow thats hot. i was just stating to the fellow who responded so he knew that he didnt want enough power to get the sub "hot" because thats not good on it if the cone area is getting hot. i'm assuming thats 90-100 degrees is hot now if the cone is that hot then the VC and what not must be extremly hot...
i did not mean to indicat that speakers dont get warm just that they shouldnt get Hot unless you are running them extremly hard or something is wrong.
ttocs on 06/26/2004 10:02:01
Wait, I'm sorry. I am not trying to call anyone out or tell them they are wrong. I was just putting in my .02 in the discussion. As I said I have never really tested to see if the cones of my speakers were warm, and I doubt many people have. This is actually a question that I have never seen, and a question that I have never pondered. Has anyone checked their cone temp? Try it out and let us know people, enquiring minds want to know.
racerbizoehm on 06/26/2004 11:52:11
I would worry when they start to smoke and smell, then I would think something is wrong lol
uochronos on 06/26/2004 17:02:53
didnt think you where calling me out or anything ttocs i just get a little passionate in discusions believe me i value your opinion and didnt mean to look like i was defensive... maybe if i can sneak one out of work i well use one of the thermoeters we use to test cooler tempetures and test my cone of my sub after it has been running for a bit.. very nifty thermometers it uses some sort of laser or infra red never really looked into them but you just point it at something withen 6 feet and it tells you the surface temp very acuratly.
even without someing or a smell heat is any electronics enemey the cool it runs the better... i would assume a sub has a shorter life in a very hot climate such as ttocs's phoenix area as compared to a moderate climate of about 70 all year. since he was right it would only get hotter from what ever the air temp is....
hmm i almsot wonder if installing a 12v liquid cooling system from a fancy computer would help in a compitition SPL system like inside the box close to the motor parts of the sub.... it would be very hard to mount and do well. interesting thought though. it is my understanding anyway that a sub usualy hits its highest SPL reading on the first couple trys before it is warm....
this is a very interesting topic though because like ttocs said its not something many people check or at least i have heard talk about.
swez on 06/28/2004 13:12:38
Anyone ever heard about thermal compression characteristics of a speaker? When at ambient temperatures, the resistance of the coil is nominal per the inductance properties of the coil.
As the VC heats up, resistance will also go up and power output will begin to drop as internal resistance of the Coil goes up.
Why not call Dan Wiggins at Adire and ask him what might be causing this and any suggestions to remedy same. I think he of most any, would know how to work this one out.
Swez
PS What is the port tuning frequency of you Brahma now? A 30 Hz., HP filter may be too low or the slope needs to be much higher than 12dB/octave as are the F-Mods. Again, Dan can answers this one better then we can.
uochronos on 06/28/2004 20:14:16
ahh interesting swez i never thought of it like that but that completely makes sice.. all kinds of little switches clicking in my brain right now:) i love moments like that
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
