Hello Swez
I was wondering if the is a place her on this website where we can shre a file or two or a place where i could e-mail it to you.
I have designed two seperate enclosures and I wanted your opinion on them.
I Have a drawing of it that I would like you to see. The way I designed this looks pretty strong. Because Of the grouved Boards. I read an article at JLAudio.com that the enclosure has to be really strong. his example was that an elephant could step on it and toss it around and it would still be intact.
(Well we all know in reality that box would br done reguardless how strong it is.) None the less I have taken this advise to heart and it is incorperated in my design.
As for the Amp. I will have to wait a while. Need $$$. The wife and kid come first. But This HiFonics Amp look promissing. So now i have three in mind. that I am strongly considering to buy. HiFonics, Pheonix Gold, Rockford Fosgate.
The file I would send you would be in a PDF Format.
and if you got comments about it right it down and let me know.
Thanks Swez
See Ya
Replies (11)
swez on 06/9/2004 09:01:41
Sure, just email it to me and I'd be happy to review and comment on what you are doing.
Swez
swezdp@juno.com
ttocs on 06/9/2004 11:47:28
the hiFonics and PG would have my votes...
swez on 06/9/2004 14:04:10
Ditto...
1st choice: Phoenix Gold (Octane or Tantrum series)
2nd choice: JBL (BP MONOVALVE series)
3rd choice: HiFonics (depends on power you want
4th choice: JL (if you can get a good deal on same) A great amp... just very expensive!
Swez
0u1lowwd2 on 06/10/2004 22:58:06
Hello Swez
Yesterday I emailed you the enclosure drawing.
It was in a JPG format.
I hope that you are able to view it.
anyhow just letting you know i sent it for some reason if it didn't get to you let me know about it.
Thank you.
swez on 06/11/2004 00:03:29
Yes, I did get it and replied back to your e-mail addy as well. Hopefully, you will have that reply on Friday. The net mail service muct be heavy as I sent it at ~10:00 AM (EDT)
Swez
PS Very good design work and details noted... just late and too tired to think straight now... nite!
0u1lowwd2 on 06/14/2004 23:53:41
Hey Swez it is me again.
I went to do some more shopping around and now 3 out of 4 places were telling me that the Amp that I really should get is a Alpine MRD M301 it has 350w rms x 1 at 2ohms 14.4v
anyhow seems pretty good only the price is a little high $390.00 Canadian. Anyhow I can only buy it late this year. his is a project that will take a while that all.
P.S. I never got your reply on the e-mail I sent you about my enclosure plan. My e-mail is eric1138@hotmail.com
So if you can resend it. I would really like that. Your knowledge is of value to me.
thank you Swez
swez on 06/15/2004 11:13:22
Here's what I sent to you on June 10th, and again today. (6/15)
Hello Eric,
Very well thought out drawings. Much more detail than most vendors care to include, but as we know... the "Devil is in the Details". Better layouts than most sub/enclosure companies would bother to do for their DIY'ers. This is more like "advanced" cabinet makers do on furniture or kitchen cabinetry designs. Very time consuming, but precise and very strong too.
The "interlacing" (overlapping grooves) of these panels, are a very good practice for maximum strength. They allow for more gluing contact surface, which nets a stronger box design. It takes more time to make these cuts with a router or daddo blade. But yes, this approach nets a very strong overall design.
FYI: Some employ a 50/50 overlap lip design too. This yields a very strong enclosure as well. Just a different way to accomplish the same idea. Either way, a much stronger box than typical "butt jointed" enclosure. The strongest corner joinery technique employed by Pro Sound box makers, use "dove tail" joints. Very strong, but also very time consuming process. Never done one myself as I do not have a dovetail cutter nor do I care to invest that much time and expense, into a sub enclosure.
Noted that 10 degree recess on the face panel in your drawings. This is a good idea and gives a well finished look as well. Just remember... that angle will reduce the internal dimensions of the box. Have to account for that angle in calculating the total internal airspace of the enclosure.
Obviously, will have to set your table saw blade angle to that 10 degree cut for both top and bottom. The top panel cut will be -10 degrees (front longer to back shorter) and the bottom cut will be a +10 degree mirror cut. (front shorter to back longer) Just flip the panel over for the second cut to get a pair of perfectly parallel edges to your initial cut. "Measure twice, cut once".
To provide maximum strength to hold baffle board in place, have 2 choices:
1. EASY WAY.... Make up "cleats" to secure the baffle panel to the enclosure. (Top, bottom and both sides)
2. *** MORE WORK WAY... Cut recessed grooves where the panel will contact the internal faces of each wall. The groove depth should be ~50% of the wall thicknesses, (top, bottom & sides) and the width of these grooves will need to be the same thickness as the baffle panel. (speaker mounting panel)
NOTE: *** This type of cut can be done with a router and follower jig guide or... using a daddo blade and table saw. Will need a 10 degree wedge angled board attached to your fence as a guide.(side board cuts) No way to "free hand" cut this type of groove and get precise results.
Finally, for a well finished look and no chip outs on exterior corners, use a router and round over bit to shave off all 90 degree edges and corners. Then go over them with a palm sander to obtain a very nice, rounded edge. If you drop the box on a sharp angle, it can crack off or crush. Just make sure your fasteners (brad nails, screw heads) are well recessed to prevent the router bit from hitting them... "Ouch" tough on a carbide bit. The fasteners are not the primary holding power of the box panels... the glue is. The round over step will be much more resistant to damage due to drops or sharp impacts and easier to cover as well.
Good work Eric,
Swez
PS When you calulate the internal air space of the enclosure, make sure you subtract the sub displacement, face panel angles and any cleats that may be used. If you are within +/- 10% of JL specs., good enough. Be sure to use polyfill or other sound dampening materials on the internal walls of the box. This will help reduce any standing bass waves, cancellations and improves low end bass extension a bit as well.
0u1lowwd2 on 06/15/2004 23:48:10
Thank you Swez.
I was just wondering. if the box was a thad to big or to small.
Because when i calculated the 21L to 22L it was for a Square box.
Then I angled it so I decided to make it a bit bigger to compensate.
I basically made the box according to what I calculated and to what JL Audio guide says how big it should be. For some reason there box seams a bit to big. I think my design is slightly smaller.
Anyhow I have your good word that it is good enough.
In your opinion should i make it a bit bigger or smaller?
or is it fine the way it is.
My life job is designing, Industrial Drafting thats my title.
Anyhow I had one question for you When you say "Sub Displacement" do you mean what in the guide book of JL Audio they call Driver Displacement. it is .050ft cu. or 1.4litres.
Basically I just took there value which is 0.75ft cu. or 21.2 litres.
but when i calculated i did not get the same result.
Anyhow I know I am close so thats all that matters. I just didn't calculate that sub displacement. but I figure in there 21.2 litres they already did.
Thanks you very much swez you are much aprechiated.
I'll be back.
see ya.
swez on 06/16/2004 09:41:50
Just to confirm... we are discussing the JL 10W0-4, 4 ohm SVC sub right? That sub is rated for 125 RMS and can take a tad over 225 in transient spikes of heavy bass loads. If I recall, you were planning to use a pair of these? Please comfirm these details.
The "recommended SQL" sealed enclosure size is 21.2 liters off the .pdf manual in JL site.
http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/10_12_15W0_MAN.pdf
However, there is an operating range for this sub that will still give good SQ/SPL performance as well. Sealed Enclosure Range: 0.50-0.90 cu.ft. (14.0-25.5 L.).
In review, the smaller the enclosure, (14.0 L.) yields less low end bass extension, but more power handling ability. (SPL applications) For deep low bass performance, the larger (25.5L.) enclosure is better, but cannot handle as much input watts.
This 21.2 litre box is designed for for an optimal blend of "punch" and "low bass extension". Obviously, this is the direction you are taking. When we design the enclosure, we must account for driver displacement (airspace the sub will consume in the box. In this case, we are looking at 1.4 litres per sub. So, your net internal enclosure volume target will be 21.2 + 1.4 = 22.6 litres internally.
In the .pdf specs, there is a note that the net internal volume of the box (21.2) does not include driver displacement or internal bracing displacement. Here, we have to add all that together to get gross internal airspace, then calculate panel cuts and fitting, to obtain that target number of 21.2 Litres inside the box.
Finally, if the box is a tad larger/smaller (+/- 10%) than the recommended target of 21.2L., bass performance will fine and well within spec range of the subwoofer. (19.0 - 23.3 L.) will be just fine.
Comments?
Swez
PS After looking at your drawings, it was obvious you had a drafting and blue print background. My drafting skills are very rusty, so bear with me as we fine tune the box drawings to hit the "bulls eye". It seems best to use your skills in drafting and my skills with regard to sub calculations to get the job done well. The main thing here... take your time, double check the details and get the gross internal air volume of this enclosure right... (21.2 +1.4 = 22.6 L.) per sub
0u1lowwd2 on 06/16/2004 23:05:31
Hey Swez
It is what you said. 10W04, 4ohms and you answered my questions about it to because when i did the calculations. I did get this result around 22 L. or close to it.
Anyhow this is the thing I had writen all down on some paper and for some reason or another they dissapeared. I had all the formula and all on it. The only thing I Can think of is that my 4 year old Put it through the Shredder. darn. Anyhow it doesn't matter.
I want to put an and to this calculating thingy.. you said it was good. Well thats good enough for me.
Thanks again swez.
swez on 06/17/2004 00:05:28
Hehe, I start on a scratch pad, the once the final dimensions are dialed in, then I store them in my computer with a hardcop pasted to my work bench or fridge in the garage. Losing valuable notes will not be an issue if you can do something similar.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress OK?
Swez
PS You are on the right path... now go on out there and cut some good panels.
PSS If you cut short... can cut it up to ~3 more times and it will still be short. Maybe short enough to toss in the fire pit and roast some weiners and marshmellows with your 4 year old.... GRIN Turn mistakes into memorable moments, the best you can eh? hehe
I was wondering if the is a place her on this website where we can shre a file or two or a place where i could e-mail it to you.
I have designed two seperate enclosures and I wanted your opinion on them.
I Have a drawing of it that I would like you to see. The way I designed this looks pretty strong. Because Of the grouved Boards. I read an article at JLAudio.com that the enclosure has to be really strong. his example was that an elephant could step on it and toss it around and it would still be intact.
(Well we all know in reality that box would br done reguardless how strong it is.) None the less I have taken this advise to heart and it is incorperated in my design.
As for the Amp. I will have to wait a while. Need $$$. The wife and kid come first. But This HiFonics Amp look promissing. So now i have three in mind. that I am strongly considering to buy. HiFonics, Pheonix Gold, Rockford Fosgate.
The file I would send you would be in a PDF Format.
and if you got comments about it right it down and let me know.
Thanks Swez
See Ya
Replies (11)
swez on 06/9/2004 09:01:41
Sure, just email it to me and I'd be happy to review and comment on what you are doing.
Swez
swezdp@juno.com
ttocs on 06/9/2004 11:47:28
the hiFonics and PG would have my votes...
swez on 06/9/2004 14:04:10
Ditto...
1st choice: Phoenix Gold (Octane or Tantrum series)
2nd choice: JBL (BP MONOVALVE series)
3rd choice: HiFonics (depends on power you want
4th choice: JL (if you can get a good deal on same) A great amp... just very expensive!
Swez
0u1lowwd2 on 06/10/2004 22:58:06
Hello Swez
Yesterday I emailed you the enclosure drawing.
It was in a JPG format.
I hope that you are able to view it.
anyhow just letting you know i sent it for some reason if it didn't get to you let me know about it.
Thank you.
swez on 06/11/2004 00:03:29
Yes, I did get it and replied back to your e-mail addy as well. Hopefully, you will have that reply on Friday. The net mail service muct be heavy as I sent it at ~10:00 AM (EDT)
Swez
PS Very good design work and details noted... just late and too tired to think straight now... nite!
0u1lowwd2 on 06/14/2004 23:53:41
Hey Swez it is me again.
I went to do some more shopping around and now 3 out of 4 places were telling me that the Amp that I really should get is a Alpine MRD M301 it has 350w rms x 1 at 2ohms 14.4v
anyhow seems pretty good only the price is a little high $390.00 Canadian. Anyhow I can only buy it late this year. his is a project that will take a while that all.
P.S. I never got your reply on the e-mail I sent you about my enclosure plan. My e-mail is eric1138@hotmail.com
So if you can resend it. I would really like that. Your knowledge is of value to me.
thank you Swez
swez on 06/15/2004 11:13:22
Here's what I sent to you on June 10th, and again today. (6/15)
Hello Eric,
Very well thought out drawings. Much more detail than most vendors care to include, but as we know... the "Devil is in the Details". Better layouts than most sub/enclosure companies would bother to do for their DIY'ers. This is more like "advanced" cabinet makers do on furniture or kitchen cabinetry designs. Very time consuming, but precise and very strong too.
The "interlacing" (overlapping grooves) of these panels, are a very good practice for maximum strength. They allow for more gluing contact surface, which nets a stronger box design. It takes more time to make these cuts with a router or daddo blade. But yes, this approach nets a very strong overall design.
FYI: Some employ a 50/50 overlap lip design too. This yields a very strong enclosure as well. Just a different way to accomplish the same idea. Either way, a much stronger box than typical "butt jointed" enclosure. The strongest corner joinery technique employed by Pro Sound box makers, use "dove tail" joints. Very strong, but also very time consuming process. Never done one myself as I do not have a dovetail cutter nor do I care to invest that much time and expense, into a sub enclosure.
Noted that 10 degree recess on the face panel in your drawings. This is a good idea and gives a well finished look as well. Just remember... that angle will reduce the internal dimensions of the box. Have to account for that angle in calculating the total internal airspace of the enclosure.
Obviously, will have to set your table saw blade angle to that 10 degree cut for both top and bottom. The top panel cut will be -10 degrees (front longer to back shorter) and the bottom cut will be a +10 degree mirror cut. (front shorter to back longer) Just flip the panel over for the second cut to get a pair of perfectly parallel edges to your initial cut. "Measure twice, cut once".
To provide maximum strength to hold baffle board in place, have 2 choices:
1. EASY WAY.... Make up "cleats" to secure the baffle panel to the enclosure. (Top, bottom and both sides)
2. *** MORE WORK WAY... Cut recessed grooves where the panel will contact the internal faces of each wall. The groove depth should be ~50% of the wall thicknesses, (top, bottom & sides) and the width of these grooves will need to be the same thickness as the baffle panel. (speaker mounting panel)
NOTE: *** This type of cut can be done with a router and follower jig guide or... using a daddo blade and table saw. Will need a 10 degree wedge angled board attached to your fence as a guide.(side board cuts) No way to "free hand" cut this type of groove and get precise results.
Finally, for a well finished look and no chip outs on exterior corners, use a router and round over bit to shave off all 90 degree edges and corners. Then go over them with a palm sander to obtain a very nice, rounded edge. If you drop the box on a sharp angle, it can crack off or crush. Just make sure your fasteners (brad nails, screw heads) are well recessed to prevent the router bit from hitting them... "Ouch" tough on a carbide bit. The fasteners are not the primary holding power of the box panels... the glue is. The round over step will be much more resistant to damage due to drops or sharp impacts and easier to cover as well.
Good work Eric,
Swez
PS When you calulate the internal air space of the enclosure, make sure you subtract the sub displacement, face panel angles and any cleats that may be used. If you are within +/- 10% of JL specs., good enough. Be sure to use polyfill or other sound dampening materials on the internal walls of the box. This will help reduce any standing bass waves, cancellations and improves low end bass extension a bit as well.
0u1lowwd2 on 06/15/2004 23:48:10
Thank you Swez.
I was just wondering. if the box was a thad to big or to small.
Because when i calculated the 21L to 22L it was for a Square box.
Then I angled it so I decided to make it a bit bigger to compensate.
I basically made the box according to what I calculated and to what JL Audio guide says how big it should be. For some reason there box seams a bit to big. I think my design is slightly smaller.
Anyhow I have your good word that it is good enough.
In your opinion should i make it a bit bigger or smaller?
or is it fine the way it is.
My life job is designing, Industrial Drafting thats my title.
Anyhow I had one question for you When you say "Sub Displacement" do you mean what in the guide book of JL Audio they call Driver Displacement. it is .050ft cu. or 1.4litres.
Basically I just took there value which is 0.75ft cu. or 21.2 litres.
but when i calculated i did not get the same result.
Anyhow I know I am close so thats all that matters. I just didn't calculate that sub displacement. but I figure in there 21.2 litres they already did.
Thanks you very much swez you are much aprechiated.
I'll be back.
see ya.
swez on 06/16/2004 09:41:50
Just to confirm... we are discussing the JL 10W0-4, 4 ohm SVC sub right? That sub is rated for 125 RMS and can take a tad over 225 in transient spikes of heavy bass loads. If I recall, you were planning to use a pair of these? Please comfirm these details.
The "recommended SQL" sealed enclosure size is 21.2 liters off the .pdf manual in JL site.
http://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/10_12_15W0_MAN.pdf
However, there is an operating range for this sub that will still give good SQ/SPL performance as well. Sealed Enclosure Range: 0.50-0.90 cu.ft. (14.0-25.5 L.).
In review, the smaller the enclosure, (14.0 L.) yields less low end bass extension, but more power handling ability. (SPL applications) For deep low bass performance, the larger (25.5L.) enclosure is better, but cannot handle as much input watts.
This 21.2 litre box is designed for for an optimal blend of "punch" and "low bass extension". Obviously, this is the direction you are taking. When we design the enclosure, we must account for driver displacement (airspace the sub will consume in the box. In this case, we are looking at 1.4 litres per sub. So, your net internal enclosure volume target will be 21.2 + 1.4 = 22.6 litres internally.
In the .pdf specs, there is a note that the net internal volume of the box (21.2) does not include driver displacement or internal bracing displacement. Here, we have to add all that together to get gross internal airspace, then calculate panel cuts and fitting, to obtain that target number of 21.2 Litres inside the box.
Finally, if the box is a tad larger/smaller (+/- 10%) than the recommended target of 21.2L., bass performance will fine and well within spec range of the subwoofer. (19.0 - 23.3 L.) will be just fine.
Comments?
Swez
PS After looking at your drawings, it was obvious you had a drafting and blue print background. My drafting skills are very rusty, so bear with me as we fine tune the box drawings to hit the "bulls eye". It seems best to use your skills in drafting and my skills with regard to sub calculations to get the job done well. The main thing here... take your time, double check the details and get the gross internal air volume of this enclosure right... (21.2 +1.4 = 22.6 L.) per sub
0u1lowwd2 on 06/16/2004 23:05:31
Hey Swez
It is what you said. 10W04, 4ohms and you answered my questions about it to because when i did the calculations. I did get this result around 22 L. or close to it.
Anyhow this is the thing I had writen all down on some paper and for some reason or another they dissapeared. I had all the formula and all on it. The only thing I Can think of is that my 4 year old Put it through the Shredder. darn. Anyhow it doesn't matter.
I want to put an and to this calculating thingy.. you said it was good. Well thats good enough for me.
Thanks again swez.
swez on 06/17/2004 00:05:28
Hehe, I start on a scratch pad, the once the final dimensions are dialed in, then I store them in my computer with a hardcop pasted to my work bench or fridge in the garage. Losing valuable notes will not be an issue if you can do something similar.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress OK?
Swez
PS You are on the right path... now go on out there and cut some good panels.
PSS If you cut short... can cut it up to ~3 more times and it will still be short. Maybe short enough to toss in the fire pit and roast some weiners and marshmellows with your 4 year old.... GRIN Turn mistakes into memorable moments, the best you can eh? hehe
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