Recently I was going to buy two 10 inch Sony subs, the pentagon ones. Before purchasing them I decided to see what people had to say about them and it turns out most knowledgable people were saying they are garbage. So I was just wondering what some of you guys might sugest as an alternative, while keeping in the same price range. Keep in mind I live in Canada and would prefer not to order products from an online company, opting rather to get them from the store in person. Thank you for any suggestions you may be able to offer, I appreciate it.
Replies (25)
uochronos on 06/1/2004 23:40:04
well buying from the store your going to pay the normal markup online you well pay alot less for better gear.... i suggest elemental designs myself you can get there kv2 series for under 100$ per sub they handly 500watts rms. there old k series you can get for 65shipped on clearance which handle 400watts rms. very good subs great sq and good on spl.
as for from the store alpine type S and type R and rockford fosgates are nice. but you are going to pay around 100$ per sub at the cheapest american for those from a store. like i said i really suggest buying online you can get better gear for around half the cost if you shop it a bit.
Dave09 on 06/1/2004 23:43:28
http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=86
how does two of those look?
and thanks for taking the time to explain that to me, I was kind of leary about buying online, but if it is cheaper than I guess that is the way to go. My whole plan for getting subs is just for a better quality sound at lower vloume levels, that was why I am looking in the 60-100 range, but I would also like the subs to have a little smack just for the odd time I want to make some noise. But thanks again for replying.
uochronos on 06/1/2004 23:49:50
i really do suggest elemental designs www.edesignaudio.com they can handle as little as 100watts but can take up to 500rms. excelent SQ and good punch. i bought one of there cheapest lowest end speakers and it kicks more ass then my alpine type r's.
as for the ones you listed i'm not a huge pyrimid fan i personaly find them lacking in many ways and not as good as other products of equal price the elemental design kv2 10" subs are only 75$ and they should be way better then my old Kx which hits great. and was a lower model.
also look for alpine type S online they are great for the price.
Dave09 on 06/1/2004 23:58:27
http://www.edesignaudio.com/im/kv2/kv2top.jpgbrbrWould this be the one you suggest? Sorry if I seem like a real pain in the ass but I dont wanna go and throw away 200 bucks on the wrong stuff.brbrDual 2 or Dual 4?br
uochronos on 06/2/2004 01:47:14
yes that is the one i sugested if you want somehting with a little less power handling and a bit cheaper goto there clearance section then click the audio hole link they have there Kx ones on sale for 65$ shipped thats what i have in the wifes car i have it on a 300watt amp and it bumps good and it can handle 400.
i'm just a huge elemental designs fan since i got this sub bevfore that i already decided i wanted a A series ED sub but after hearing there Kx i was a solid ED fan for life.
ttocs on 06/2/2004 11:26:37
hey man don't think you are doing anything wrong. We are here to help. I agree with him. I have been in the industry for more then a few years, there is a HUGE markup in most car audio. you can find it cheaper if you know where to look.
swez on 06/2/2004 11:35:06
Amen to that.... online stores have very low operating costs. Brick & mortar stores have lots of overhead to factor into the selling price. Listen to gear in these stores if you wish, but shop online for the best prices. Most sellers we recommend here, support their customers well with returns and other technical needs as well.
What amp do you have in mind for your bass engine? If no amp in mind, power and price range info would be most helpful. We'll steer you to a good choice from there.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/2/2004 18:40:24
Thanks for all the info guys, I think I am going to order two of the kv2 10"'s. I dont really have an amp in mind, but I know I dont want to spend much more than $250 on one. All I really would want the amp to beable to do is run the two subs mentioned above. Thanks again for the help guys, I appreciate the help which has turned out to be much better than the help you get in most stores where the salesmen look at you like you are retarded when you dont know what half the stuff they list off is.
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 00:42:00
haha k I know I am kinda whipping around here, and I apologize but I think I am going to get these ones, unless somebody completely changes my mind soon http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/KIC03C104
lol k sorry I will quit my endless ranting now and go spend some money:)
uochronos on 06/3/2004 01:12:18
those are as well very nice. but much lower power rating you wont get the same bang as the kv2 but if you like kicker more these well also be nice. just not as loud and maybe even a little less sq
swez on 06/3/2004 10:52:07
Kickers are pretty popular with the bass-head crowd. They will not give the Sound Quality that is common to eD subs, Apline, Infinity and many others. The other drawback with these Kicker subs... they like a large enclosure to get the deep lows. That means giving up a lot of cargo space to use these subs.
The eD's at $65.00 (USD) is a very good deal on a quality sub. The CND price exchange rate would make these about $88.50 (CND) per sub plus shipping and duties etc.
Not telling you what to do... just advising you that there are better options for you hard earned money. Hate to see you buy cheap now and be very unhappy later, only to do it all over again at higher costs. Think it over carefully Dave... we know this game very well and would not steer you wrong.
Swez
uochronos on 06/3/2004 13:15:22
also if you live near toronto there is a place there that sell ED subs. seems that ED does alow stores to sell there gear in other countries. at least from what i was reading online. if you wanted to go hear one of these before you bought it.
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 15:03:53
Thanks for the advice swez, and I truly do appreciate your opinion because I do believe you are very knowledgable on this subject. I was ready to purchase the eD ones but after the exchange, and shippping they were about 50 dollars more than I wanted to spend. So I think I am going to go with the Kicker ones, and if they do turn out to be complete garbage than I guess it was a hard lesson learned. Thanks again for the advice, now what would you guys recomend for an amp to power this things? my price range here is about 140 American or 200 Canadian.
swez on 06/3/2004 16:10:07
What are some of the Canadian e-tailers you can buy gear from? If we knew their website addys, we could check the sites, see what is available and then make a few suggestions.
Personally, I think... you may regret buying the Kickers mentioned earlier in this thread. Just not a very versitile sub for the money or performance you will probably want down the road. A friend of mine has a pair of Comp VR's (Dual coil) and they sound pretty decent when amped properly. Just depends on how much of a Bass Engine you want to "invest" in. The VR's are a bit more robust in power handling and the DVC allow for several amp choices to work out well.
Trust us David... many have been at this for several years and know well, the pitfalls of buy now, regret and replace later. It is better to wait a few months to get the cash needed to buy quality gear. We have seen many come here for car audio recommendations, opt for low budge gear and then kick themselves for not waiting to buy the "good stuff" a bit later. I am not busting your dreams here either. Just trying to make this process go smooth as silk and you are one happy camper when it's done.
Peace,
Swez
PS I did find a JBL GT1041D, 10" DVC (4+4) style at Forest City site. It will take 275 watts RMS and only 1 is needed for now. It sells for $110.00 (CND) You can easily buy 1 of these now and add a 2nd one later if you desire more bass. How does that sound to you? More sub, less than a pair of the Kickers and a have $$ left over for a decent amp too.
http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=2631
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 21:19:02
Sorry Swez:( but I just had to. how does this amp look though
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=9&WLBS=fsweb7&sku_id=0665000FS10026501&catid=&newdeptid=9
swez on 06/3/2004 21:59:51
For the subs you will have soon, (Kicker Comps) this amp is a very good match in terms of power, reliability and features. Much more power to your subs than the RF 2001S and only a few bucks more.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=9&WLBS=fsweb11&sku_id=0665000FS10027465&catid=11031&newdeptid=9 $229.00 (CND)
MTX is a very good brand name, holds it value and is a pretty solid amp to boot.
MTX RT251D Car Amplifier FEATURES:
Heavy Duty Nickel Plated Terminal Block Type Connectors
Smart-Engage Auto-Turn On For Easy Integration With Factory Head Units
Adjustable Input Sensitivity
Regulated PWM Mosfet Switching Power Supply
High Powered Transformers
Buffered Isolated Output For Daisy Chaining Multiple Amplifiers
Pure N-Channel Design
Intelligent Surface Mount Technology
Real-Time Computerized Protection Circuit
Anti-Shock PCB Mounting Design
Acoustically Seamless Turn-On/Turn-Off
Unique Rubber Insulated Iso-Feet
Speaker And Low Level Inputs
Colour Coded Wire Harness For Speaker Level Input Installation
Built-In 18dB/Octave LP Crossover @ 85Hz
250 Watts x 1 Into 2ohm (This is what your subs will see)
125 Watts x 1 Into 4ohm
Comments?
Swez
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 22:08:22
Thanks:) looks good to me now I just gotta go pick one of them up. And just to let you know that if you woulda said not to get those kickers before someone else said they will be allright I wouldnt have. But they are ordered now so we will see how things turn out:) Hopefully when I get all the gear it will go in smooth, if not I'm sure one of you guys will be able to help me out:) Thanks again guys!
swez on 06/4/2004 08:20:58
This amp will work well with what you have mentioned so far. Kicker is not a bad product at all. Just that there are other options out there as well. Some are far worse choices than what we have discussed so far. Many are are more upper end gear. The Kicker L5 & L7 Solo-Barics are top notch as are their amps. Just cost a lot more than some care to spend.
See you back here as the install process gets underway. That's when the real fun & learning begins.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/5/2004 22:14:49
I just got a brand new amp for free from the guy in town who owns the electronics store, when i mentioned I was going to buy the amp you guys suggested he said not to and he would just give me a cheap one he had laying around. The specs on the box are: Digital PWM regulated power supply, Mosfet switching power device, low level input, variable gain control, variable bass booster, built in bridging capability, 2 OHM stable operation, soft start delayed turn on, gold plated rca input connectors, power on LED, Protection circuit: thermal, short-circuit, overload, gold plated screw terminals, cross over low/high/fullpass, low level input/output
Frequency response 20hz-30khz, Distrotion less than 0.1%THD, Input sensitivity 200mV-3V, Line level output 2V, Crossover type Electronic low/high pass, crossover slope 12dB/octave, crossover frequency high pass 30-300Hz low pass 30-300Hz Full 20-300KHz, Signal to noise ratio greater than 103dB, Bass boost 0-6dB@45Hz
250W x 2CH
Well I am pretty sure this isnt a very good amp but it was free, so what do you guys think. He also said the company you recomended isnt the greatest, but I dont know. Thanks guys.
uochronos on 06/6/2004 02:03:25
certainly not a bad amp at all for free.
was he refering to the MTX amp as being "not the greatest" he must have very high standards of being good. alot of times people from car audio shops become "audio snobs" as i like to call them i have cuaght myself being one from time to time and have to stomp it out. so just be aware that one persons idea of not great could work really well for you.
swez on 06/6/2004 13:34:48
Not in total disagreement with him if he said MTX IS NOT TOP END GEAR. He is correct when comparing this amp to a $600.00 PPI, Cadence, SoundStream or other high end amps.
The amp you have now should work. Features are pretty generic as far as even low end amps go. Most are 2 ohms stable in 2 channel mode, but 4 ohms min in bridged mode.
That power figure of 250 watts x 2 makes me wonder... is that 250 x 2 peak at 2 ohms/channel and maybe 14.4 volts supply voltage? What's the brand name on it and what is the fuse rating for this amp?
Swez
Dave09 on 06/7/2004 01:12:17
I think its called an Audiopipe or something, I know I have never heard of it before. I am not sure what he meant by saying MTX isnt the greatest so I cant really say he was comparing it to a high end amp. I will have to get back to you on the fuse rating, but I will say that I have it all wired into my vehicle now and its turning on with my deck so atleast I got that much done. Anyways thanks for your time guys.
Dave09 on 06/7/2004 01:24:15
http://www.audiopipeusa.com/AcPow.html
I was given the GM6200, maybe this will help a bit.
swez on 06/7/2004 09:33:47
Looks like about 150 watts RMS per channel at 4 ohms here. It would be fuses at ~40A. (20 x 2) Should match up OK with your Kicker Comps for now.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/14/2004 22:13:56
I wired each sub seperatly to seperate channels, should I keep it like that? and what kind of settings should I run on the amp? Thanks guys.
Replies (25)
uochronos on 06/1/2004 23:40:04
well buying from the store your going to pay the normal markup online you well pay alot less for better gear.... i suggest elemental designs myself you can get there kv2 series for under 100$ per sub they handly 500watts rms. there old k series you can get for 65shipped on clearance which handle 400watts rms. very good subs great sq and good on spl.
as for from the store alpine type S and type R and rockford fosgates are nice. but you are going to pay around 100$ per sub at the cheapest american for those from a store. like i said i really suggest buying online you can get better gear for around half the cost if you shop it a bit.
Dave09 on 06/1/2004 23:43:28
http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=86
how does two of those look?
and thanks for taking the time to explain that to me, I was kind of leary about buying online, but if it is cheaper than I guess that is the way to go. My whole plan for getting subs is just for a better quality sound at lower vloume levels, that was why I am looking in the 60-100 range, but I would also like the subs to have a little smack just for the odd time I want to make some noise. But thanks again for replying.
uochronos on 06/1/2004 23:49:50
i really do suggest elemental designs www.edesignaudio.com they can handle as little as 100watts but can take up to 500rms. excelent SQ and good punch. i bought one of there cheapest lowest end speakers and it kicks more ass then my alpine type r's.
as for the ones you listed i'm not a huge pyrimid fan i personaly find them lacking in many ways and not as good as other products of equal price the elemental design kv2 10" subs are only 75$ and they should be way better then my old Kx which hits great. and was a lower model.
also look for alpine type S online they are great for the price.
Dave09 on 06/1/2004 23:58:27
http://www.edesignaudio.com/im/kv2/kv2top.jpgbrbrWould this be the one you suggest? Sorry if I seem like a real pain in the ass but I dont wanna go and throw away 200 bucks on the wrong stuff.brbrDual 2 or Dual 4?br
uochronos on 06/2/2004 01:47:14
yes that is the one i sugested if you want somehting with a little less power handling and a bit cheaper goto there clearance section then click the audio hole link they have there Kx ones on sale for 65$ shipped thats what i have in the wifes car i have it on a 300watt amp and it bumps good and it can handle 400.
i'm just a huge elemental designs fan since i got this sub bevfore that i already decided i wanted a A series ED sub but after hearing there Kx i was a solid ED fan for life.
ttocs on 06/2/2004 11:26:37
hey man don't think you are doing anything wrong. We are here to help. I agree with him. I have been in the industry for more then a few years, there is a HUGE markup in most car audio. you can find it cheaper if you know where to look.
swez on 06/2/2004 11:35:06
Amen to that.... online stores have very low operating costs. Brick & mortar stores have lots of overhead to factor into the selling price. Listen to gear in these stores if you wish, but shop online for the best prices. Most sellers we recommend here, support their customers well with returns and other technical needs as well.
What amp do you have in mind for your bass engine? If no amp in mind, power and price range info would be most helpful. We'll steer you to a good choice from there.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/2/2004 18:40:24
Thanks for all the info guys, I think I am going to order two of the kv2 10"'s. I dont really have an amp in mind, but I know I dont want to spend much more than $250 on one. All I really would want the amp to beable to do is run the two subs mentioned above. Thanks again for the help guys, I appreciate the help which has turned out to be much better than the help you get in most stores where the salesmen look at you like you are retarded when you dont know what half the stuff they list off is.
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 00:42:00
haha k I know I am kinda whipping around here, and I apologize but I think I am going to get these ones, unless somebody completely changes my mind soon http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/KIC03C104
lol k sorry I will quit my endless ranting now and go spend some money:)
uochronos on 06/3/2004 01:12:18
those are as well very nice. but much lower power rating you wont get the same bang as the kv2 but if you like kicker more these well also be nice. just not as loud and maybe even a little less sq
swez on 06/3/2004 10:52:07
Kickers are pretty popular with the bass-head crowd. They will not give the Sound Quality that is common to eD subs, Apline, Infinity and many others. The other drawback with these Kicker subs... they like a large enclosure to get the deep lows. That means giving up a lot of cargo space to use these subs.
The eD's at $65.00 (USD) is a very good deal on a quality sub. The CND price exchange rate would make these about $88.50 (CND) per sub plus shipping and duties etc.
Not telling you what to do... just advising you that there are better options for you hard earned money. Hate to see you buy cheap now and be very unhappy later, only to do it all over again at higher costs. Think it over carefully Dave... we know this game very well and would not steer you wrong.
Swez
uochronos on 06/3/2004 13:15:22
also if you live near toronto there is a place there that sell ED subs. seems that ED does alow stores to sell there gear in other countries. at least from what i was reading online. if you wanted to go hear one of these before you bought it.
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 15:03:53
Thanks for the advice swez, and I truly do appreciate your opinion because I do believe you are very knowledgable on this subject. I was ready to purchase the eD ones but after the exchange, and shippping they were about 50 dollars more than I wanted to spend. So I think I am going to go with the Kicker ones, and if they do turn out to be complete garbage than I guess it was a hard lesson learned. Thanks again for the advice, now what would you guys recomend for an amp to power this things? my price range here is about 140 American or 200 Canadian.
swez on 06/3/2004 16:10:07
What are some of the Canadian e-tailers you can buy gear from? If we knew their website addys, we could check the sites, see what is available and then make a few suggestions.
Personally, I think... you may regret buying the Kickers mentioned earlier in this thread. Just not a very versitile sub for the money or performance you will probably want down the road. A friend of mine has a pair of Comp VR's (Dual coil) and they sound pretty decent when amped properly. Just depends on how much of a Bass Engine you want to "invest" in. The VR's are a bit more robust in power handling and the DVC allow for several amp choices to work out well.
Trust us David... many have been at this for several years and know well, the pitfalls of buy now, regret and replace later. It is better to wait a few months to get the cash needed to buy quality gear. We have seen many come here for car audio recommendations, opt for low budge gear and then kick themselves for not waiting to buy the "good stuff" a bit later. I am not busting your dreams here either. Just trying to make this process go smooth as silk and you are one happy camper when it's done.
Peace,
Swez
PS I did find a JBL GT1041D, 10" DVC (4+4) style at Forest City site. It will take 275 watts RMS and only 1 is needed for now. It sells for $110.00 (CND) You can easily buy 1 of these now and add a 2nd one later if you desire more bass. How does that sound to you? More sub, less than a pair of the Kickers and a have $$ left over for a decent amp too.
http://www.fcsurplus.ca/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=2631
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 21:19:02
Sorry Swez:( but I just had to. how does this amp look though
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=9&WLBS=fsweb7&sku_id=0665000FS10026501&catid=&newdeptid=9
swez on 06/3/2004 21:59:51
For the subs you will have soon, (Kicker Comps) this amp is a very good match in terms of power, reliability and features. Much more power to your subs than the RF 2001S and only a few bucks more.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=9&WLBS=fsweb11&sku_id=0665000FS10027465&catid=11031&newdeptid=9 $229.00 (CND)
MTX is a very good brand name, holds it value and is a pretty solid amp to boot.
MTX RT251D Car Amplifier FEATURES:
Heavy Duty Nickel Plated Terminal Block Type Connectors
Smart-Engage Auto-Turn On For Easy Integration With Factory Head Units
Adjustable Input Sensitivity
Regulated PWM Mosfet Switching Power Supply
High Powered Transformers
Buffered Isolated Output For Daisy Chaining Multiple Amplifiers
Pure N-Channel Design
Intelligent Surface Mount Technology
Real-Time Computerized Protection Circuit
Anti-Shock PCB Mounting Design
Acoustically Seamless Turn-On/Turn-Off
Unique Rubber Insulated Iso-Feet
Speaker And Low Level Inputs
Colour Coded Wire Harness For Speaker Level Input Installation
Built-In 18dB/Octave LP Crossover @ 85Hz
250 Watts x 1 Into 2ohm (This is what your subs will see)
125 Watts x 1 Into 4ohm
Comments?
Swez
Dave09 on 06/3/2004 22:08:22
Thanks:) looks good to me now I just gotta go pick one of them up. And just to let you know that if you woulda said not to get those kickers before someone else said they will be allright I wouldnt have. But they are ordered now so we will see how things turn out:) Hopefully when I get all the gear it will go in smooth, if not I'm sure one of you guys will be able to help me out:) Thanks again guys!
swez on 06/4/2004 08:20:58
This amp will work well with what you have mentioned so far. Kicker is not a bad product at all. Just that there are other options out there as well. Some are far worse choices than what we have discussed so far. Many are are more upper end gear. The Kicker L5 & L7 Solo-Barics are top notch as are their amps. Just cost a lot more than some care to spend.
See you back here as the install process gets underway. That's when the real fun & learning begins.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/5/2004 22:14:49
I just got a brand new amp for free from the guy in town who owns the electronics store, when i mentioned I was going to buy the amp you guys suggested he said not to and he would just give me a cheap one he had laying around. The specs on the box are: Digital PWM regulated power supply, Mosfet switching power device, low level input, variable gain control, variable bass booster, built in bridging capability, 2 OHM stable operation, soft start delayed turn on, gold plated rca input connectors, power on LED, Protection circuit: thermal, short-circuit, overload, gold plated screw terminals, cross over low/high/fullpass, low level input/output
Frequency response 20hz-30khz, Distrotion less than 0.1%THD, Input sensitivity 200mV-3V, Line level output 2V, Crossover type Electronic low/high pass, crossover slope 12dB/octave, crossover frequency high pass 30-300Hz low pass 30-300Hz Full 20-300KHz, Signal to noise ratio greater than 103dB, Bass boost 0-6dB@45Hz
250W x 2CH
Well I am pretty sure this isnt a very good amp but it was free, so what do you guys think. He also said the company you recomended isnt the greatest, but I dont know. Thanks guys.
uochronos on 06/6/2004 02:03:25
certainly not a bad amp at all for free.
was he refering to the MTX amp as being "not the greatest" he must have very high standards of being good. alot of times people from car audio shops become "audio snobs" as i like to call them i have cuaght myself being one from time to time and have to stomp it out. so just be aware that one persons idea of not great could work really well for you.
swez on 06/6/2004 13:34:48
Not in total disagreement with him if he said MTX IS NOT TOP END GEAR. He is correct when comparing this amp to a $600.00 PPI, Cadence, SoundStream or other high end amps.
The amp you have now should work. Features are pretty generic as far as even low end amps go. Most are 2 ohms stable in 2 channel mode, but 4 ohms min in bridged mode.
That power figure of 250 watts x 2 makes me wonder... is that 250 x 2 peak at 2 ohms/channel and maybe 14.4 volts supply voltage? What's the brand name on it and what is the fuse rating for this amp?
Swez
Dave09 on 06/7/2004 01:12:17
I think its called an Audiopipe or something, I know I have never heard of it before. I am not sure what he meant by saying MTX isnt the greatest so I cant really say he was comparing it to a high end amp. I will have to get back to you on the fuse rating, but I will say that I have it all wired into my vehicle now and its turning on with my deck so atleast I got that much done. Anyways thanks for your time guys.
Dave09 on 06/7/2004 01:24:15
http://www.audiopipeusa.com/AcPow.html
I was given the GM6200, maybe this will help a bit.
swez on 06/7/2004 09:33:47
Looks like about 150 watts RMS per channel at 4 ohms here. It would be fuses at ~40A. (20 x 2) Should match up OK with your Kicker Comps for now.
Swez
Dave09 on 06/14/2004 22:13:56
I wired each sub seperatly to seperate channels, should I keep it like that? and what kind of settings should I run on the amp? Thanks guys.
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