hey guys! i just sold the 2 15' rockford fosgate subs and amps i had so that i can start looking for something better/louder. i know what im brand im getting i just dont know what way would be louder and this topic has always been confusing with me: is 4 10's better than 3 12's?? or in my situation is 4 12's better than 3 15's?? and im going to be getting the kicker solarbaric L7's (off ebay ofcoarse). thanks for the help...
Replies (7)
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 11:33:05
solo-baric i dont know why i spelled it like i did lol by the way...im not just a bass freak i just want LOUD BASS i have already replaced all the door speakers and i have 4 infinity dome tweeters (2 on dash 2 above back seat) and i also replaced the factory sub thats in the back.. wich i had another ?? about its an 8'orion and its only about 150 watts rms and i have a little 200 watt (90rms) jensen amp to it....when i have my subs in there should that be disconnected?? one of my friends said i should, because when i had my 15's on and the hatch open it was sounding distorted
swez on 05/30/2004 11:37:55
If you have an Explorer, bass gain from the cabin will help you a lot here. Almost +20dB of "free bass gain" in this vehicle due to the huge cave this truck offers.
Also, depends on if you go sealed or ported here. Ported will give you ~3dB more SPL per sub than sealed. It's a larger box (for sure) but the SPL level you get may be well worth it. It really depends on the type of music you like and if you plan to compete in DB Drags.
Smaller subs tend to be a bit more punchy in sound characteristics. Larger sub tend to provide more deep booming bass. Depending on the enclosure design, you can get plenty of boom from 10's or 12's. Hard to get punch from most 15's though.
Finally, it's all about power amp size, cone area and cone excursion. The amplifiers you choose, will be determined by how much current your electrical system can provide to the amps. If you plan to use a pair of large sub amps, need to look at upgrading your stock electrical system to get enough "juice" to the amplifiers used.
Say more,
Swez
Raefin on 05/30/2004 11:57:37
Swez can you explain "Free Bass Gain" please? It seems like something I should be interested in with respect to my suburban.
swez on 05/30/2004 12:26:50
In audio, the space available (environment) for sound can make a big difference in how a system sounds... especially BASS.
Take a given sub/enclosure and amp and hook it up in 3 different environments, and you will get 3 different types of Bass performance.
1. Outdoor systems will gobble up bass energy fast. There is little (if any) "gain effect" in outdoor applications. That's why Pro sound gear must be very robust in both amping power and number of subs. You see this in live music... moderate bass near the stage, more bass as you move back toward the mixing board. After about 100' away from the stage, all you hear is bass when off axis to the mids/highs.
2. Home Theater systems do have some Bass Gain effect. Depending on the room size, shape and furnishings, can pick up ~10 or 12 dB more bass due to the room effects that hold the bass within the room.
3. Car applications can offer a notable addition of extra bass gain effect. Typically 15 to 25 dB more bass energy, depending on the vehicle.
This is called "ACOUSTICAL COUPLING" in audio engineering terminology. Smaller vehicles (say a Toyota Tecel) will give good bass coupling if the seats are down and trunk is open. Larger cars and small SUV's are even better. But in a single cab PU truck, hard to get great bass without a lot of clever design tweaks and amp power. (a very small airspace)
Now, move to a large scale vehicle like an SUV or Suburban, you have a large cave effect working for you. This large airspace tends to add large amounts of "free" low end bass energy. The largets SPL spikes will be near the resonant frequency of the cabin. When resonence in the cabin is reached (frequency range between 50-70 Hz) get a huge boost (spike) in Bass SPL at that frequency as the entire cabin is vibrating at that frequency.
Does that answer your question? Probably will spawn more question huh?
Swez
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 16:14:19
I have up graded my electrical system as much as i know about doing besides a capacitator - sp? (which think and have heard are a waste of money!) have an Optima brand battery that has 900 cca and a bigger alt that has 200 amps...i dont know how much it uses to run the car etc...or how much of a system this will handle...what do you think, will it handle the system i want to put in? and if not, what more can i do?
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 16:23:29
also, i do like the sound of the deeper bass...so if i went with the 3- 15' Solo-baric SL7 1000w rms what amps and box would you sugguest? im getting an awesome deal on these!! at the audio place by me there0 $650each... im getting then for $295 each!! "buy it now" and then $70 to ship
swez on 05/30/2004 19:30:43
I have heard a pair of Solo-barics (or were they solarbarics???) in a demo room. They used the 15" version, one per ported box and a 750 RMS amp per sub. It was so loud, amps were falling off the walls and lighting fixtures were falling fron the ceiling. About 10 feet back from them, my pant legs were fluttering and my chest was getting some extra beats as well. It was LOUD!!!
OK, if you go Kicker, look at the enclosure specs that are noted off their website. The min/max ported enclosure size is 3.0/6.0 cf respectively. If you shoot for maximum deep bass version, probably only have room for 1 Solo 15. (6.0 cf is a small coffin in size) The .pdf files have the Tech and users guide files and enclosure dimensions. Open them up and read them with a close eye. If you just gotta have a pair of these, plan on hefty amps to run them and consider dropping to a smaller enclosure per sub. (3.0 - 4.5cf/sub)
Maximum amping power recommended is 1000 watts RMS per sub. But if you go with the larger ported enclosure design, less amping power is a must, as 1000 RMS per sub will damage them in such a huge enclosure.
AMPS:
http://www.kicker.com/ShowPage.cfm?filename=sxdclass.html&menu=SXAMPS
The SX-1250.1 will power 2 L7's well in smaller ported enclosures. If you select only 1 L7 in the 6.0 cf box, the SX-650.1 will be plenty and will not stress your electrical system to the max. You will still have plenty of SPL either way.
Having said all that, it appears that your electrical system will handle 1 1250.1 or 2 650.1's without too much stress. If you find yourself running short of power to run either amp set, can add a 2nd Optima BAT and a battery isolation kit. This will help keep your truck electricals separate from sub amp power draw.
Finally, we are at a fork in the road on what to do next. Depending on your choices, we can then configure which subs (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's) to match the amp(s) selected. Measure your rear cargo space available. Width, height and how deep will be determined by the amount of cargo space you wish to keep for toys.
I would think the width behind the rear seats will be close to 46". The height will be a few inches taller than the sub(s) ~18.0" and depth will be a variable to determine later.
OK, do you homework and come back with some dimensions and a plan of direction.
Swez
PS The "Capasitator" makes a nice paper weight or auto jewlery. But even a 5 Farad Capacitor will be of limited use in most cases. A 2nd Battery is superior to a CAP.
Replies (7)
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 11:33:05
solo-baric i dont know why i spelled it like i did lol by the way...im not just a bass freak i just want LOUD BASS i have already replaced all the door speakers and i have 4 infinity dome tweeters (2 on dash 2 above back seat) and i also replaced the factory sub thats in the back.. wich i had another ?? about its an 8'orion and its only about 150 watts rms and i have a little 200 watt (90rms) jensen amp to it....when i have my subs in there should that be disconnected?? one of my friends said i should, because when i had my 15's on and the hatch open it was sounding distorted
swez on 05/30/2004 11:37:55
If you have an Explorer, bass gain from the cabin will help you a lot here. Almost +20dB of "free bass gain" in this vehicle due to the huge cave this truck offers.
Also, depends on if you go sealed or ported here. Ported will give you ~3dB more SPL per sub than sealed. It's a larger box (for sure) but the SPL level you get may be well worth it. It really depends on the type of music you like and if you plan to compete in DB Drags.
Smaller subs tend to be a bit more punchy in sound characteristics. Larger sub tend to provide more deep booming bass. Depending on the enclosure design, you can get plenty of boom from 10's or 12's. Hard to get punch from most 15's though.
Finally, it's all about power amp size, cone area and cone excursion. The amplifiers you choose, will be determined by how much current your electrical system can provide to the amps. If you plan to use a pair of large sub amps, need to look at upgrading your stock electrical system to get enough "juice" to the amplifiers used.
Say more,
Swez
Raefin on 05/30/2004 11:57:37
Swez can you explain "Free Bass Gain" please? It seems like something I should be interested in with respect to my suburban.
swez on 05/30/2004 12:26:50
In audio, the space available (environment) for sound can make a big difference in how a system sounds... especially BASS.
Take a given sub/enclosure and amp and hook it up in 3 different environments, and you will get 3 different types of Bass performance.
1. Outdoor systems will gobble up bass energy fast. There is little (if any) "gain effect" in outdoor applications. That's why Pro sound gear must be very robust in both amping power and number of subs. You see this in live music... moderate bass near the stage, more bass as you move back toward the mixing board. After about 100' away from the stage, all you hear is bass when off axis to the mids/highs.
2. Home Theater systems do have some Bass Gain effect. Depending on the room size, shape and furnishings, can pick up ~10 or 12 dB more bass due to the room effects that hold the bass within the room.
3. Car applications can offer a notable addition of extra bass gain effect. Typically 15 to 25 dB more bass energy, depending on the vehicle.
This is called "ACOUSTICAL COUPLING" in audio engineering terminology. Smaller vehicles (say a Toyota Tecel) will give good bass coupling if the seats are down and trunk is open. Larger cars and small SUV's are even better. But in a single cab PU truck, hard to get great bass without a lot of clever design tweaks and amp power. (a very small airspace)
Now, move to a large scale vehicle like an SUV or Suburban, you have a large cave effect working for you. This large airspace tends to add large amounts of "free" low end bass energy. The largets SPL spikes will be near the resonant frequency of the cabin. When resonence in the cabin is reached (frequency range between 50-70 Hz) get a huge boost (spike) in Bass SPL at that frequency as the entire cabin is vibrating at that frequency.
Does that answer your question? Probably will spawn more question huh?
Swez
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 16:14:19
I have up graded my electrical system as much as i know about doing besides a capacitator - sp? (which think and have heard are a waste of money!) have an Optima brand battery that has 900 cca and a bigger alt that has 200 amps...i dont know how much it uses to run the car etc...or how much of a system this will handle...what do you think, will it handle the system i want to put in? and if not, what more can i do?
01eddiebauer on 05/30/2004 16:23:29
also, i do like the sound of the deeper bass...so if i went with the 3- 15' Solo-baric SL7 1000w rms what amps and box would you sugguest? im getting an awesome deal on these!! at the audio place by me there0 $650each... im getting then for $295 each!! "buy it now" and then $70 to ship
swez on 05/30/2004 19:30:43
I have heard a pair of Solo-barics (or were they solarbarics???) in a demo room. They used the 15" version, one per ported box and a 750 RMS amp per sub. It was so loud, amps were falling off the walls and lighting fixtures were falling fron the ceiling. About 10 feet back from them, my pant legs were fluttering and my chest was getting some extra beats as well. It was LOUD!!!
OK, if you go Kicker, look at the enclosure specs that are noted off their website. The min/max ported enclosure size is 3.0/6.0 cf respectively. If you shoot for maximum deep bass version, probably only have room for 1 Solo 15. (6.0 cf is a small coffin in size) The .pdf files have the Tech and users guide files and enclosure dimensions. Open them up and read them with a close eye. If you just gotta have a pair of these, plan on hefty amps to run them and consider dropping to a smaller enclosure per sub. (3.0 - 4.5cf/sub)
Maximum amping power recommended is 1000 watts RMS per sub. But if you go with the larger ported enclosure design, less amping power is a must, as 1000 RMS per sub will damage them in such a huge enclosure.
AMPS:
http://www.kicker.com/ShowPage.cfm?filename=sxdclass.html&menu=SXAMPS
The SX-1250.1 will power 2 L7's well in smaller ported enclosures. If you select only 1 L7 in the 6.0 cf box, the SX-650.1 will be plenty and will not stress your electrical system to the max. You will still have plenty of SPL either way.
Having said all that, it appears that your electrical system will handle 1 1250.1 or 2 650.1's without too much stress. If you find yourself running short of power to run either amp set, can add a 2nd Optima BAT and a battery isolation kit. This will help keep your truck electricals separate from sub amp power draw.
Finally, we are at a fork in the road on what to do next. Depending on your choices, we can then configure which subs (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's) to match the amp(s) selected. Measure your rear cargo space available. Width, height and how deep will be determined by the amount of cargo space you wish to keep for toys.
I would think the width behind the rear seats will be close to 46". The height will be a few inches taller than the sub(s) ~18.0" and depth will be a variable to determine later.
OK, do you homework and come back with some dimensions and a plan of direction.
Swez
PS The "Capasitator" makes a nice paper weight or auto jewlery. But even a 5 Farad Capacitor will be of limited use in most cases. A 2nd Battery is superior to a CAP.
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
