OK Gentlemen... You may recall you were most helpful helping me serlect the appropriate Amplifiers for my daughters car. Well I ended up ordering the PG Octane 8.0.4 and the PG Octane 5.0.1 sub amps. After getting sounddomain to price match both the total cost was only $400.50 for both, so I spent the little extra for two amps instead of the one 9.0.5 5-chanel amp. The AMPS are here and now I need to get the correct wire gauge and fuse to do the install.brbrNow with that said, the new question is what Power and Ground wire do you recommend? I am asking for recommendation on both brand and gauge. Based on your input I will not use a fused distribution block since the amps have them onboard. The 4-channel amp has two 30 amp fuses onboard and the sub amp has two 20 amp fuses onboard. I had read on Cruthfiled to simple add these together and insatll a fuse at the battery equal to the sum. In this case I was thinking a 100 watt ANL fuse. The Power and groud I was thinking should be either 2 or 4 gauge. brbrWill a 100 watt ANL fuse and 4 gauge wire do the job? Also, do you recommend a certain brand of fuse, fuse holder, distribution block and wire? brbrAlso, would you recommend one power wire with a distribution block for the two amps or using separate power wires for each amp?
Replies (10)
swez on 05/28/2004 20:13:53
Very good... progress in being made here.
A 100A ANL fuse is appropriate for this install and needs to be located close to the BAT on power feed line. (18" or less is best location)
A #4 power gage kit is in order here. A #2 is better for larger installs and is very bulky, hard to hide as well.
The best hardware and wiring products I have come across to date are from Knukonceptz.com Very high quality, good prices and no huge markups as typical of some branded products. Every one I know that has bought from them are all pleased with performance,quality and pricing. (I will be ordering same for my pending install)
Here's a list of items you will need: GM, side post BAT right? Hate em!
1. A pair of battery termination lugs (one for Pos & Neg) $3.99
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=GMBT
2. ANL fuse holder $20.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-20
3. 4 channel amp wiring kit (#4 gage) $36.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK44
NOTE: This come with an AGU style, 80 amp inline fuse holder. Can use this w/o trouble and cheaper than 100A ANL.
4. Power Distribution block $16.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-2044
NOTE: Is designed for dual 1/0 gage inputs, but you can still use #4 with good results.
5. Grounding block $6.00 (optional)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
6. Fuses:
a. 100 A. ANL $5.99/ea. a pair should be all you need if you choose an ANL fuse holder
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=ANL100
b. 80 A. AGU fuses get a few for spares $0.89/ea.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=AGU80
7. Power wiring off Distribution block
a. Use #4 gage into D-block from fuse holder
b. Use #4 gage wire from D-block to 4 channel amp (power/ground)
c. Use #8 gage wire from D-block to sub amp (power/ground)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?Category=Power%20Wire (4 gage wires for 4 channel amp)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR08BLS (8 gage wires for sub amp)
8. Sub amp to sub wiring (use #12 gage paired wires here)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR12BLS
9. For speaker wires out of 4 channel amp to interior speakers, can use stock wiring harness wires. Just feed 2 sets of #16 Gage to front speakers through HU harness splices and rears from amp outs direct.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR16BLS
If your 4 channel amp has sub preouts, can simply run RCA jumpers out of 4 channel to sub amp for signals to sub amp. If the 4 channel does not have that option, does the HU have a sub output line? If yes, one more pair of RCA lines will be needed from HU to sub amp.
Comments?
Swez
wilee-coyote on 05/28/2004 23:50:31
Great info as usual. Two things. First it is not a GM it is my daughters 1995 Toyota Celica GT (top mount). Second you mentioned a pair of 100 A ANL fuses. I only need one correct? Is the second a spare?
What about the option of wiring each amp separately and eliminating the Power distribution block. Is that a bad idea?
Steve
swez on 05/29/2004 09:08:59
Toyota here.. OK, that changes the BAT termination game plan a bit and maybe your sub wiring plan.
The proper BAT termination product for a top mounted BAT is:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BT-104P $12.00
Yes, the 2nd ANL fuse is a spare. If one blows, you have a backup handy.
As for eliminating the D-block, you have 2 possible options:
1. Run a #4 to your 4 channel and a separate #8 power line off the battery, to each respective amp. Each line will need to be fused near battery and the AGU fuse kit supplied with 4 channel can be employed. A 2nd AGU fuse and 2 channel wiring kit can be used for the sub amp. The drawback here, more hardware to buy and running dual power lines to back will be a challenge. The AGU fuses are in each wiring kit, so that will save some $ by not using ANL hardware and fuse, which are more expensive.
4 Channel wire kit: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK44 $36.00
2 Channel wire kit: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK8 $18.00
2. The other option, is to make your own power distribution system. Can use a high current "Barrier Strip" device here, but have to make your own bridging hardware. This method uses only one #4 power wire and splits a #4 wire to the 4 channel amp. The #8 wire to the sub amp. It needs to be covered to prevent shorts. Can do same for your ground distribution system as well.
Barrier Strips look like this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=090-842
This one is rated at 20A. @ 250 volts (5,000 watts), but your amps will be pulling more than 20A per unit. You may have to look for a higher current version at an Industrial electrical supply house. May be hard to find devices that can handle #4/8 gage wires.
a. 4 channel can draw a max., of ~900 watts
b. 2 channel can draw a max., of ~600 watts
Hope that helps you sort out your options,
Swez
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 09:30:48
I checked out knukoncepts. Great tip. I plan to order as needed.
If I may, two follow-up questions.
1. Other then the cost and the effort to run the wires, is there any reason from a quality or sonic perspective not to run separate power wires for each amp?
2. I'm not opposed to the D-block was just asking for options. But if I stick with the D-block I understand I need a #4 for the 4-channel and a #8 for the mono sub. The qwuestion I have here is would it be OK to use #4 for both amps. I'd just assume run #4 from the battery on back unless there is a reason not to "overkill" the sub amp.
Many, many thanks again!
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 09:34:30
Oh and one more question to show my ignorance.... Does the battery tertminal completely replace the one that is on there. I assume so, and I need to transfer the existing wires for the cars electrical system to the new terminal. Is that correct?
swez on 05/29/2004 19:54:21
You can run dual power feed wires from the BAT to amps if you wish. However, #4 is pretty thick stuff. A pair would be a challenge to hide well, once inside the vehicle. If you did a cost comparison, I think the extra #4 wire (20' = $20.00) would cost more in time and $ to install than using the D-block noted. Either way, sonically there is no problem I am aware of. But for ease of install alone, a single #4 line is plenty enough to challenge most folks. You'll see...
As for using a #4 gage line to feed the sub amp, yes... that would be fine if the termination lug will accomodate #4. Most smaller amps will not mind a bit, if you can fit that gage wire in the lug.
Your last question was a very good one! Look closely at the picture on this link:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BT-104P
It has a #4 gage hole and set screw, a #1/0 gage hole with set screw and a large bolt head between them. By cutting off the OEM battery wires (STARTER and ALT wires) they will fit into #1/0 hole or use "O" style crimp on lugs and connect these to the center bolt. That leaves the #4 & #1/0 holes available for your amps etc. Basically, you have 3 wire termination ports on this device.
A good question that is not easily seen, until you look closer at the device and the details about it. I had to stop and chew on it a bit myself. Then it became obvious how well this product is actually engineered.
Swez
PS Do you know the ALT output rating in this vehicle? Also, have a look at the BAT's CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) rating #. Since you have 2 moderate current amplifiers running here, want to make sure we don't overlook any other mods or upgrades to power them & the cars' needs.
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 23:11:17
OK, I will most likely run one 4 gauge to the rear and split it off using the D-block. I think I will keep it simple and run #4 from the battery and the #4 to the 4-channel and #8 to the sub amp as you first recommended.
I do know the ALT output because I had to replace it for her about 6 months ago., The ALT is 80 AMP. I do not know the Cold Cranking Amps on the battery and she is at her Mothers for the memorial weekend so Iwill not be able to check until Tuesday.
In all your recommendations you did not mention a primary or remote wire to turn on the AMps. Will I need one? Better yet, will I need two to turn them both on? What is your recommendation for turning on both amps? sorry for all the questions I really like to make sure I get everything I need and do the job right the first time....
swez on 05/30/2004 11:00:37
Steve,
The primary wires (power feeds) to the amp, will be a short lengths of #4 and #8 wires, off the D-block. The #4 will be left over from the 4 channel wiring kit. It comes with 20', but you will probably only need ~16' to the D-block. (depends on routing used) If you feel this is not enough wire, then get a few extra feet of #4 & #8 power wiring for each amp. Need to order a few feet of #8 grounding cable for the sub amp too.
The REMote feeder wire is attached to the RCA wires in the 4 channel wiring kit. You can daisy chain both amps together by adding a length of #16 wire between 4 channel REM lug and sub amp REM lug.
Also, this 4 channel kit only comes with a single pair of (5m/16.25') RCA cable. If this HU has 4 preouts, need to add 1 more RCA wire set to feed 4 channel amp all 4 channel signals. The 4 channel wire kit will provide 1 pair. Adding this 2 channel RCA wire pair, will give you all 4 channels off the HU to 4 channel amp.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR2-6M
=================================================
FYI: Can use only 1 RCA pair from HU to 4 channel, but have to add "Y" splitters. Doing it this way will eliminate the fade (F/R) channel features in the HU. To maintain fade controls, need to add 1 more RCA line kit to your order noted above. Depends on # of HU preouts and your preferences.
Also, the 4 channel amp does have preouts to feed full range signals (daisy chain) to the sub amp. Will need a short RCA wire set for this as well.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLS1M OR
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR2-2M
NOTE: 1 meter = ~39
OK, hope we've covered these details adequately before you place your order. I know what you mean about delays due to missing parts or forgetting a $2.00 part. (annoying at best)
=================================================
Finally, I asked about the ALT and CCA ratings on the BAT because we need to have enough reserve power to run both amps and the vehicle as well. Under normal listening conditions, these amps will pull less than 50A. of current. But when the amps are pushed hard, the total current consumption will be close to 80A, if not a bit more.
The BAT will act as a buffer to deliver extra power to the amps. But the ALT will be working hard to fill the BAT back to full charge and running car accessories too. A large CCA rated BAT (800+ CCA) will be a better source of buffer than say a 500 CCA rated BAT.
If her car has severe light dimming at high listening levels, the ALT/BAT are not providing enough "juice" to meet the needs of the entire system. This is especially true in larger sub amps. There are fixes for this, if it does occur. But we will have to cross that bridge when we get there. It really depends on her listening habits and the electrical system health in general.
Dave (Swez)
PS I would not have noted the electrical supply issues as the car noted in the header is a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. This car has a larger electrical system and would not be an issue. But since we are talking a Toyota Celica here, it has less electrical supply capability. Am glad you clarified that point as it may or (may not) be an issue, once the amps are installed.
PSS You can circumvent some of this by using the 80A fuse kit that comes with the 4 channel wiring kit. The 80A fuse will limit how much current the audio system is allowed to draw, before the fuse opens. This is her que to keep the volume within "reasonable limits". An 80A. fuse will take some short term current overage before it blows. But the fuse will also be a reminder to her... it's too darn loud! Along with a careful set up of the amps, you can control this with amp gains as well.
CAUTION: We are talking high SPL potentials here. (120 dB+) Which has long term detriments to the hearing!!! (permanent hearing damage) I can handle ~110dB of Mids/Highs before it gets me to leave the area. The bass is less noticable, but still potentially damaging to hearing.
wilee-coyote on 05/31/2004 11:22:03
Thanks Dave,
The Pontiac Grand Prix is my car. Or the Red Rocket as I affectionately call it. The stereo in that car was upgraded 3 years ago with some MBQuart speakers and a Rockford Amp. NO sub for me as it's not my style.
The HU has 2 sets of preouts so I will need two sets of RCA. It sounds like I need one set of RCA with the feeder wire for remote and the other RCA will not need this. In other words just one run from the HU to the 4-channel amp for remote and then daisy chain remote to the sub amp. GOT IT! How will I know which wire to connect the feeder wire to on the HU? I'm sure it will be marked right?
The 4-channel amp does have an aux output as you noted so a short run of RCA from that to the sub is also in order. I really think I have it now.
Anyway, I think I have a great understanding of the plan now. I completely understadn the charging system concern. I think the 80 AMP ALT will suffice if she is not abusive. I laughed so hard when I read your comments. I can't wait for the first time she comes in and says "Daddy, I think there's something wrong with the stereo you installed?". My reply of course will be... "Let's see, oh yes, you're playing it to DARN loud!!!". I am absolutely going to take your recommendation and limit the fuse to 80A to "train" her on good listeneing practices. Although I know there will be the occassional "bump it up" to impress her friends, for the most part I think she understadns what good SQ is from growing up around my passion for home stereo. In some ways, I'm responsible for her wanting to upgrade in the first place. I'm actually kind of proud of that and it's part of why we are doing this together (sharing the cost, and she will help me install at least to see what goes into it and how to take care of it.
Many many thanks. I made a small donation this morning and intend to do so again when it's all said and done. Your help has been both inspiring and incredibly responsive. I know a lot of your time is put into this. Passion is good!
swez on 06/1/2004 11:51:18
The 4 channel RCA wiring kit comes with a small feeder wire attached for REM turn on of the amps. Can't miss it as it is integrated into the wire set... a small trailing wire of ~#18-20 gage is what you can expect.
Yes, you will want to use 2 long RCA wire pairs from HU preout, to 4 channel inputs. Then use a short set of RCA's from 4 channel preouts, to feed sub amp.
As for fusing... yes, she will get the message the first time she blows the main fuse. Get a few spares... but don't let her know about it...Boy, will she be shocked when Dad has a quick fix and some words of wisdom about her listening habits... :-)
No bass in the RED ROCKET eh? Once you get daughter's sub system up and tweaked, you may change your mind. You are missing about 1.5 octaves of bass with what was mentioned earlier. Does not have to be a boomer bass system either. Jus a single sub and modest amp will do wonders for adding low end to the mix.
Gotta run for now...
Dave
Replies (10)
swez on 05/28/2004 20:13:53
Very good... progress in being made here.
A 100A ANL fuse is appropriate for this install and needs to be located close to the BAT on power feed line. (18" or less is best location)
A #4 power gage kit is in order here. A #2 is better for larger installs and is very bulky, hard to hide as well.
The best hardware and wiring products I have come across to date are from Knukonceptz.com Very high quality, good prices and no huge markups as typical of some branded products. Every one I know that has bought from them are all pleased with performance,quality and pricing. (I will be ordering same for my pending install)
Here's a list of items you will need: GM, side post BAT right? Hate em!
1. A pair of battery termination lugs (one for Pos & Neg) $3.99
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=GMBT
2. ANL fuse holder $20.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=FH-20
3. 4 channel amp wiring kit (#4 gage) $36.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK44
NOTE: This come with an AGU style, 80 amp inline fuse holder. Can use this w/o trouble and cheaper than 100A ANL.
4. Power Distribution block $16.00
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-2044
NOTE: Is designed for dual 1/0 gage inputs, but you can still use #4 with good results.
5. Grounding block $6.00 (optional)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=PB-1448
6. Fuses:
a. 100 A. ANL $5.99/ea. a pair should be all you need if you choose an ANL fuse holder
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=ANL100
b. 80 A. AGU fuses get a few for spares $0.89/ea.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=AGU80
7. Power wiring off Distribution block
a. Use #4 gage into D-block from fuse holder
b. Use #4 gage wire from D-block to 4 channel amp (power/ground)
c. Use #8 gage wire from D-block to sub amp (power/ground)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?Category=Power%20Wire (4 gage wires for 4 channel amp)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR08BLS (8 gage wires for sub amp)
8. Sub amp to sub wiring (use #12 gage paired wires here)
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR12BLS
9. For speaker wires out of 4 channel amp to interior speakers, can use stock wiring harness wires. Just feed 2 sets of #16 Gage to front speakers through HU harness splices and rears from amp outs direct.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR16BLS
If your 4 channel amp has sub preouts, can simply run RCA jumpers out of 4 channel to sub amp for signals to sub amp. If the 4 channel does not have that option, does the HU have a sub output line? If yes, one more pair of RCA lines will be needed from HU to sub amp.
Comments?
Swez
wilee-coyote on 05/28/2004 23:50:31
Great info as usual. Two things. First it is not a GM it is my daughters 1995 Toyota Celica GT (top mount). Second you mentioned a pair of 100 A ANL fuses. I only need one correct? Is the second a spare?
What about the option of wiring each amp separately and eliminating the Power distribution block. Is that a bad idea?
Steve
swez on 05/29/2004 09:08:59
Toyota here.. OK, that changes the BAT termination game plan a bit and maybe your sub wiring plan.
The proper BAT termination product for a top mounted BAT is:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BT-104P $12.00
Yes, the 2nd ANL fuse is a spare. If one blows, you have a backup handy.
As for eliminating the D-block, you have 2 possible options:
1. Run a #4 to your 4 channel and a separate #8 power line off the battery, to each respective amp. Each line will need to be fused near battery and the AGU fuse kit supplied with 4 channel can be employed. A 2nd AGU fuse and 2 channel wiring kit can be used for the sub amp. The drawback here, more hardware to buy and running dual power lines to back will be a challenge. The AGU fuses are in each wiring kit, so that will save some $ by not using ANL hardware and fuse, which are more expensive.
4 Channel wire kit: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK44 $36.00
2 Channel wire kit: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KOLAK8 $18.00
2. The other option, is to make your own power distribution system. Can use a high current "Barrier Strip" device here, but have to make your own bridging hardware. This method uses only one #4 power wire and splits a #4 wire to the 4 channel amp. The #8 wire to the sub amp. It needs to be covered to prevent shorts. Can do same for your ground distribution system as well.
Barrier Strips look like this:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=090-842
This one is rated at 20A. @ 250 volts (5,000 watts), but your amps will be pulling more than 20A per unit. You may have to look for a higher current version at an Industrial electrical supply house. May be hard to find devices that can handle #4/8 gage wires.
a. 4 channel can draw a max., of ~900 watts
b. 2 channel can draw a max., of ~600 watts
Hope that helps you sort out your options,
Swez
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 09:30:48
I checked out knukoncepts. Great tip. I plan to order as needed.
If I may, two follow-up questions.
1. Other then the cost and the effort to run the wires, is there any reason from a quality or sonic perspective not to run separate power wires for each amp?
2. I'm not opposed to the D-block was just asking for options. But if I stick with the D-block I understand I need a #4 for the 4-channel and a #8 for the mono sub. The qwuestion I have here is would it be OK to use #4 for both amps. I'd just assume run #4 from the battery on back unless there is a reason not to "overkill" the sub amp.
Many, many thanks again!
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 09:34:30
Oh and one more question to show my ignorance.... Does the battery tertminal completely replace the one that is on there. I assume so, and I need to transfer the existing wires for the cars electrical system to the new terminal. Is that correct?
swez on 05/29/2004 19:54:21
You can run dual power feed wires from the BAT to amps if you wish. However, #4 is pretty thick stuff. A pair would be a challenge to hide well, once inside the vehicle. If you did a cost comparison, I think the extra #4 wire (20' = $20.00) would cost more in time and $ to install than using the D-block noted. Either way, sonically there is no problem I am aware of. But for ease of install alone, a single #4 line is plenty enough to challenge most folks. You'll see...
As for using a #4 gage line to feed the sub amp, yes... that would be fine if the termination lug will accomodate #4. Most smaller amps will not mind a bit, if you can fit that gage wire in the lug.
Your last question was a very good one! Look closely at the picture on this link:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=BT-104P
It has a #4 gage hole and set screw, a #1/0 gage hole with set screw and a large bolt head between them. By cutting off the OEM battery wires (STARTER and ALT wires) they will fit into #1/0 hole or use "O" style crimp on lugs and connect these to the center bolt. That leaves the #4 & #1/0 holes available for your amps etc. Basically, you have 3 wire termination ports on this device.
A good question that is not easily seen, until you look closer at the device and the details about it. I had to stop and chew on it a bit myself. Then it became obvious how well this product is actually engineered.
Swez
PS Do you know the ALT output rating in this vehicle? Also, have a look at the BAT's CCA (Cold Cranking Amps) rating #. Since you have 2 moderate current amplifiers running here, want to make sure we don't overlook any other mods or upgrades to power them & the cars' needs.
wilee-coyote on 05/29/2004 23:11:17
OK, I will most likely run one 4 gauge to the rear and split it off using the D-block. I think I will keep it simple and run #4 from the battery and the #4 to the 4-channel and #8 to the sub amp as you first recommended.
I do know the ALT output because I had to replace it for her about 6 months ago., The ALT is 80 AMP. I do not know the Cold Cranking Amps on the battery and she is at her Mothers for the memorial weekend so Iwill not be able to check until Tuesday.
In all your recommendations you did not mention a primary or remote wire to turn on the AMps. Will I need one? Better yet, will I need two to turn them both on? What is your recommendation for turning on both amps? sorry for all the questions I really like to make sure I get everything I need and do the job right the first time....
swez on 05/30/2004 11:00:37
Steve,
The primary wires (power feeds) to the amp, will be a short lengths of #4 and #8 wires, off the D-block. The #4 will be left over from the 4 channel wiring kit. It comes with 20', but you will probably only need ~16' to the D-block. (depends on routing used) If you feel this is not enough wire, then get a few extra feet of #4 & #8 power wiring for each amp. Need to order a few feet of #8 grounding cable for the sub amp too.
The REMote feeder wire is attached to the RCA wires in the 4 channel wiring kit. You can daisy chain both amps together by adding a length of #16 wire between 4 channel REM lug and sub amp REM lug.
Also, this 4 channel kit only comes with a single pair of (5m/16.25') RCA cable. If this HU has 4 preouts, need to add 1 more RCA wire set to feed 4 channel amp all 4 channel signals. The 4 channel wire kit will provide 1 pair. Adding this 2 channel RCA wire pair, will give you all 4 channels off the HU to 4 channel amp.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR2-6M
=================================================
FYI: Can use only 1 RCA pair from HU to 4 channel, but have to add "Y" splitters. Doing it this way will eliminate the fade (F/R) channel features in the HU. To maintain fade controls, need to add 1 more RCA line kit to your order noted above. Depends on # of HU preouts and your preferences.
Also, the 4 channel amp does have preouts to feed full range signals (daisy chain) to the sub amp. Will need a short RCA wire set for this as well.
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KLS1M OR
http://www.knukonceptz.com/productDetail.cfm?prodID=KAR2-2M
NOTE: 1 meter = ~39
OK, hope we've covered these details adequately before you place your order. I know what you mean about delays due to missing parts or forgetting a $2.00 part. (annoying at best)
=================================================
Finally, I asked about the ALT and CCA ratings on the BAT because we need to have enough reserve power to run both amps and the vehicle as well. Under normal listening conditions, these amps will pull less than 50A. of current. But when the amps are pushed hard, the total current consumption will be close to 80A, if not a bit more.
The BAT will act as a buffer to deliver extra power to the amps. But the ALT will be working hard to fill the BAT back to full charge and running car accessories too. A large CCA rated BAT (800+ CCA) will be a better source of buffer than say a 500 CCA rated BAT.
If her car has severe light dimming at high listening levels, the ALT/BAT are not providing enough "juice" to meet the needs of the entire system. This is especially true in larger sub amps. There are fixes for this, if it does occur. But we will have to cross that bridge when we get there. It really depends on her listening habits and the electrical system health in general.
Dave (Swez)
PS I would not have noted the electrical supply issues as the car noted in the header is a 2000 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. This car has a larger electrical system and would not be an issue. But since we are talking a Toyota Celica here, it has less electrical supply capability. Am glad you clarified that point as it may or (may not) be an issue, once the amps are installed.
PSS You can circumvent some of this by using the 80A fuse kit that comes with the 4 channel wiring kit. The 80A fuse will limit how much current the audio system is allowed to draw, before the fuse opens. This is her que to keep the volume within "reasonable limits". An 80A. fuse will take some short term current overage before it blows. But the fuse will also be a reminder to her... it's too darn loud! Along with a careful set up of the amps, you can control this with amp gains as well.
CAUTION: We are talking high SPL potentials here. (120 dB+) Which has long term detriments to the hearing!!! (permanent hearing damage) I can handle ~110dB of Mids/Highs before it gets me to leave the area. The bass is less noticable, but still potentially damaging to hearing.
wilee-coyote on 05/31/2004 11:22:03
Thanks Dave,
The Pontiac Grand Prix is my car. Or the Red Rocket as I affectionately call it. The stereo in that car was upgraded 3 years ago with some MBQuart speakers and a Rockford Amp. NO sub for me as it's not my style.
The HU has 2 sets of preouts so I will need two sets of RCA. It sounds like I need one set of RCA with the feeder wire for remote and the other RCA will not need this. In other words just one run from the HU to the 4-channel amp for remote and then daisy chain remote to the sub amp. GOT IT! How will I know which wire to connect the feeder wire to on the HU? I'm sure it will be marked right?
The 4-channel amp does have an aux output as you noted so a short run of RCA from that to the sub is also in order. I really think I have it now.
Anyway, I think I have a great understanding of the plan now. I completely understadn the charging system concern. I think the 80 AMP ALT will suffice if she is not abusive. I laughed so hard when I read your comments. I can't wait for the first time she comes in and says "Daddy, I think there's something wrong with the stereo you installed?". My reply of course will be... "Let's see, oh yes, you're playing it to DARN loud!!!". I am absolutely going to take your recommendation and limit the fuse to 80A to "train" her on good listeneing practices. Although I know there will be the occassional "bump it up" to impress her friends, for the most part I think she understadns what good SQ is from growing up around my passion for home stereo. In some ways, I'm responsible for her wanting to upgrade in the first place. I'm actually kind of proud of that and it's part of why we are doing this together (sharing the cost, and she will help me install at least to see what goes into it and how to take care of it.
Many many thanks. I made a small donation this morning and intend to do so again when it's all said and done. Your help has been both inspiring and incredibly responsive. I know a lot of your time is put into this. Passion is good!
swez on 06/1/2004 11:51:18
The 4 channel RCA wiring kit comes with a small feeder wire attached for REM turn on of the amps. Can't miss it as it is integrated into the wire set... a small trailing wire of ~#18-20 gage is what you can expect.
Yes, you will want to use 2 long RCA wire pairs from HU preout, to 4 channel inputs. Then use a short set of RCA's from 4 channel preouts, to feed sub amp.
As for fusing... yes, she will get the message the first time she blows the main fuse. Get a few spares... but don't let her know about it...Boy, will she be shocked when Dad has a quick fix and some words of wisdom about her listening habits... :-)
No bass in the RED ROCKET eh? Once you get daughter's sub system up and tweaked, you may change your mind. You are missing about 1.5 octaves of bass with what was mentioned earlier. Does not have to be a boomer bass system either. Jus a single sub and modest amp will do wonders for adding low end to the mix.
Gotta run for now...
Dave
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