I've seen subwoofers mounted facing up down and just about every other direction. Sometimes with the rear of the sub visible instead of the cone. What differences can the facing direction of the sub make?
It's more of a general question, but just for specifics, I have a 2000 neon (pretty limited room, my back seat might be parting ways with me soon). I'm planning on moving up to 2 JL Audio 13w7's and 1000/1 amps to push each one.
Smaller questions are, how much should I trust someone to build a custom enclosure for my car that would have the proper specs?
Oh, and before i resort to duct tape, any ideas or known products that an prevent a rear view mirror from rattling (or falling off the windshield in my lap while im driving)?
I know these are dorky questions but I just found the site today and you guys seem to know everything. Thanks.
- luminoso@outgun.com
Replies (20)
uochronos on 05/24/2004 14:51:51
as far as the rearview mirror falling off i suggest better glue. as for it reattling find one at an auto parts stor that doesnt. mine moves around alot but makes no noise. where as my old car had one that was all lose and rattled alot.
the direction the sub is faced can make differnce but not a huge one usualy its mroe of a taste thing personaly always point them which ever direction they have the most room in front of them.
wow thats alot of sub for that little car 2 jl 13W7's are going to damn near kill you.... not to discourage you but i suggest you hear a single 13W7 in a car that size it might save you a 1500$+. a second sub is only going to ad 3db of sound aproxamatly anyway. but one of these bad boys is more then capable..
for box building find a reputable place to build one and then check that the box they make is to jl specs if its not and thats what you asked for then they have some explaining to do. i personaly have had boxes build before by 2 differnt local places and both times they did each place did a nice job. remember though what you pay for is what you get if one place wanst 300$ and the other 50$ then be sceptical of the lower one because they are cutting corners somewhere. and remeber you can always negotiate a bit if the qoute you for 300$ tell them you really have a budget of 250 you can go over and they well usualy come down a bit. especialy if its the same place you buy the sub and amp they well suualy come down quite a bit with a purchase of that magnatude.
swez on 05/25/2004 22:17:02
As for sub placement, most of the research I have read and tried, shows the best overall response when the subs are butted up against the rear seat backs and aimed to the rear of the car. You can try various orientations, but this one mentioned works best for most guys.
Also, I agree with Chronos that you may want to start with 1 JL and 1 amp first. They are not cheap for one. And for #2, the power drain on your car electrical system will be substancial with dual 1000 watt amps. Not sure on the exact numbers here, but a typical 1000 watt (RMS) amp will draw 100A. of current at high output. Even with one of these amps in the system, you will most likely have to modify your electrical system. (Ie: HO ALT & high CCA rated BAT)
Finally, the windshield will flex a great deal with this much BASS SPL. A good 2 part epoxy may keep the shoe in place, bit the mirror will still vibrate so badly, you cannot see well anyway. Am wondering if one of those wide view mirror systems might work better for you. The kind that span the entire width of your windshield??? If this can be employed and not attached to windshield, it may be more useful than the common window mount type.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 09:40:52
be carefull on the window. my subs knocked my mirror off so i bought that rear view mirror epoxy at autozone. i clean surfaces followed directions, well it turned out epoxy worked too well, it actually ripped the chunk of glass out that my mirror was connected too. it broke it all the way through to the safty sheet between the windshield. that is the only possible thing that could have happened. there was not a crack in that spot before and nor is the outside cracked. i just scribed a line all the way around the missing chunk to prevent further spreading of the crack. i may be becuase the car was old but i have never seen that before. can take pictures to show if you want too see it. good luck.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 09:54:05
First off, 2 JL 13W7's in a 2000 Neon is going to be enough to cause you to go deaf and possibly many other maladies. Or if you prefer to keep your hearing you will need to play the music so low that you will never be able to utilize the $3000 setup that you have.
1 12W7 with a 1000/1 amp is enough bass to fill the entire cabin of my suburban so that You can't hear anything else but it at half volume. At full volume it is enough to shake and rattle other cars rear view mirrors as you pass by with the windows down.
I strongly recommend that you go down to a local JL audio installer and ask if they have any W7 installs that happen to be in the shop at the moment and ask them to play it for you so you realize just how much bass you are talking about.
Secondly a setup like that is going to severely drain the power system on that vehicle. So unless you are thinking about upgrading alternators, batteries and numerous other things it may not be the way to go. Understand that my setup has cost me a small fortune in most peoples minds just to be able to listen to the bass lines on some of my favorite tracks.
Finally, the specs on the JL audio boxes calls for inch and a half thick board so that the box itself doesn't self destruct at higher volumes. The 13W7 requires an additional 3 inches of width and 2 inches of height and depth when compared to the 12W7 so you are looking at boxes that are roughly 2 feet wide by a foot and a half high and deep. Times 2 that is 4 feet wide. A second 12W7 would take up the remainder of the trunk in my Suburban. I can only imagine the sacrifice of installing that in a neon.
My recommendation is before you do anything regarding purchases is to go down to the local JL installer and request to hear the setup in a vehicle that they may have in back. This is the only way you will get an idea of how much power you are really talking about.
swez on 05/26/2004 09:54:54
Yep, I've seen that happen before too. Cannot remember which vehicle I had, but the mirror came off a few times in summer heat. I used that mirror adhesive after proper cleaning of the glass. It worked fine for a while then I came out one day to go to work and the mirror & shoe were lying on the dash board and a nice divot of glass out of the windshield as well.
Did not have subs then... just bad roads to drive on. Just repositioned the mirror to hide the divot, but used a clean site to mount the mirror again. It was a leased Company car, so I did not worry about replacing the windshield as it was fine for months before I got a new car.
Swez
luminoso on 05/26/2004 14:19:16
I've already planned for the small fortune thing. The car is pretty much already a 2 seater with what I already have. The rear seats have been folded down for the last year and a half to make room. Someone already informed me that it might be a good idea to look into bullet proof glass before I go ahead with it. I already have a new alternator, battery, and multiple caps. Basically, the car isnt going to be for listening value much anymore, just a giant rolling speaker for when some other testosterone driven jackass like myself wants to argue about who's is bigger. The JL's are questionable though, because I realize they are pricey and would be almost a waste for how i'd be applying them. I'm debating 15'' L7's instead, but it'd still be loud as ****, same problems, and need just as much power. I admit, even to myself it sounds stupid, but I've never claimed to be a bright person, just determined. My girlfriend already bought me a lifetime supply of earplugs. They're both to save my hearing, and help me try to zone out everyone around me saying "bad idea".
uochronos on 05/26/2004 14:32:33
i'm puting a single 12" elemental designs with 1200+watts rms to it in my truck so i dont think you have a bad idea. i think it is just rough around the edges... another sub from what i understand well only add 3db that is such a small amount that i dont even know if at that kind of volume if you would even be able to notice the second subs add to the system... and what kind of alternator did you upgrade too? from my calculations you well need around 160amps and thats a very low guess just to run the sub amplifiers.
the only reason i can see getting the extra 3db of sound from another sub is if you where professionaly doing spl compititions in your car. this system with a single 13w7 i would think would hit over 140db as is without trouble. at that volume you would go deaf if you where in the cabin of your car. if your just looking to compete with random people around town then more then that isnt needed. i had a set of alpine type R 10" subs off 600watt in my truck and my old car before that,. and they where louder then 90% of the people i came across on the street.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 14:42:44
have you heard of a company called adire audio? they make some top of the line equipment. they have a series called the brahma which handles 1600 watts rms, has 28mm one way x-max. thats insane way more than the L7 or the W7, the 15 inch model goes for 449 way less that the W7.. they also make a series called tumult, this is same power handling as the brahma but has 34mm one way x-max. that will definitly move some air, one of them and you will be raddling houses 5 blocks away.. im not saying dont go with the W7 but for the price comparison im thinkin the adire audio may be more suitable for ya/
www.adireaudio.com then goto raw drives if you want to check them out. have fun good luck
luminoso on 05/26/2004 14:52:26
Sounds tight. I am beginning to re-think things. Not as much because its too much, but because as you all mentioned, its more money for not much difference. I'm either going to simply save money by getting less costly equipment, or go with maybe 4 smaller subs instead of 2 enormous ones, to end up at about the same power. My alternator now is supposed to be 140 amps I believe, but I was going to see if I could find something about 250 that i can work into my car. Sucks in my 2000 neon though, the alternator is practically hiding underneath the engine.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 15:05:06
250 amps would definitly do the trick, never have to worry bout going through town again and having your lights go out. yea id definitly rethink your strategy here.. can still go with two 15 inch subs just dont go with the hightest model out there. have you heard the W3's. the dual 15inch in the custom jl slot port box. thats crazy loud and can be had for less than the W7. i myself have 2 15inch kicker comp vrs in a custom box for my back seat and they are extremely loud for the money i have into them.. but if you wanted like 3 12s or sumthing that will get really loud too. just have to match your equipment well. dont get a 2000 watt rms sub and only a 300 watt amp... ya know what i mean.
luminoso on 05/26/2004 15:17:22
Money isn't really an issue once i can figure out whats best for my dumbass desires. As far as mating subs and amps, I've always done well. Right now I only have 2 12''s and they already bang out more than 90% of the people around here, and they're about 5 years old at that. I got them before I had my drivers license. Basically the point now isn't just loud, but something to show off. The top of the line models are hard to stay away from with my shallow goals.
Here's a question though, I love sharp punchy bass over the long dull sounding kind. How can I go to the extreme to make the bass hit like someone's kicking the back of my seat over just booming so loud it drowns everything out?
uochronos on 05/26/2004 15:54:41
the larger subs are going to hit lower and less punch. 8's are almost all punch 10's are punchy with a decent low end. 12's are a great mix of both. and 15+ are mainly just boom... 2 12" w3's or w6's would do the trick or 3 10" w3's sound bad ass too. a friend has 3 10" w3 version 1's in his truck and they rattle **** blocks away. only 1200watts to them also.
some huigh end subs tolook at are
Adire audio brahmas
elemental designs a series(soon a series version 2)
phoenix gold just release a sub that handles tons of power and has a max excursion of almost 3 inches one way its an amazing spl sub. also anyone interested in this they also just release an amazing amp its a 4 channel amp that puts out 2500watts rms per channel.
elemental designs are my favorites listed i suggest you check them out i have the lowest model in my wifes car abnd for 300watts rms it pounds out the bass loud and clear. there current a series handles up to 1400watts rms and is compared bto the jl audio w7. and there a series V2 coming soon is promised to blow some minds.
luminoso on 05/26/2004 16:03:54
well, i'll stay at 12's then, i want the sharp thump, the question now is which ones and how many.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 16:30:22
I will stick by what I have said in the past which is if SPL is your main consideration then do not worry about the $750 subwoofers just pick up a set of the brahma's or some other strong SPL sub (It doesn't matter too much) and spend the rest of the money on amplifiers and batteries to feed that one or two subs.
To me that sounds like what it is that you are after anyways. Is to be the top dog on the block. SPL is about Quantity not Quality. Buying the high end SQ stuff is just gonna limit you when you are trying to maximize your SPL.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 16:53:12
brahmas have excellent soung quality as well, probably better than the jl subs.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 17:04:23
If that is the case then get those. You will have the best SPL speaker, the best SQ speaker, and the cheapest all wrapped up in one.
swez on 05/26/2004 20:09:09
Agreed, a pair of Brahma 12's in a small sealed enclosure will really punch your back rest. These subs in a 0.85 -1.0 cf/sub enclosure will surely deliver both HIGH SPL and great SQ. A very good balance of both = SQL max.
If you want a bit more SPL, a ported enclosure with a tuning frequency near car internal resonance will add ~+6dB at port tuning frequency. You'll have to filter off anything below port tuning frequency to avoid damaging the subs.
Some go a step further in enclosure design too. They use a dual port system. One for daily driving, the other when they want to knock their guts loose. That's an option if you want the most from any major sub player in the SPL game.
Swez
luminoso on 05/30/2004 18:48:54
alright, sounds sweet. Those subs are like 1600 watts each though right? got any suggestions for amps? And, I still have to check up on whether the 250amp alternator will actually fit, but even if it does, will that be enough for a 3200++ watt system? What about wiring? I've seen a lot of parts for wiring that wont even work for wire widths over 4 and 0 gauge. Is that gonna be a problem?
swez on 05/30/2004 20:04:31
If you go with the Adire Brahma 12's, (2+2 DVC configuration) figure a small to medium sized port enclosure. As for amping them, yes... the voice coils can take 1600 watts RMS, but depending on the enclosure size, the maximum excursion limits (X-Max.) of 34 mm/~1.3" (one way) will be reached long before you get to that power range. (say ~800 -1000 watts per sub)
Have to understand the physics behind this adventure. High SPL is about moving large amounts of air. Woffers are akin to large air pistons. Just like car engines... "there's no replacement for displacement". The more air you can move with a given sub design, the more SPL you get... period!
FYI: Scotty Johnson has a 9 x 15 Brahmas' install and dedicated amps to each sub. He has hit 174 dB with this syetem already and looking to break the 175 dB barrier. The power plant needed to power all these amps is enormous. I think he has several ALTS and BATS to power them all. Not to mention the weight he has added with all this gear. That's EXTREME Class SPL. Was on their old website. But the new format is still adding segments. You can call or write Adire for additional details and product specs.
techsupport@adireaudio.com OR...
http://www.adireaudio.com/CompanyInfo/info.htm
Where to next luminoso?
Swez
luminoso on 06/2/2004 17:25:51
The Bank? I just found out today I'm getting a promotion making almost twice the money I am now. Good ****. Comes also with a longer commute to work everyday. More stereo will make the time fly by so I'm definately going to go ahead. I guess now it's just figuring out specs for the enclosure as you told me, then I can figure out how much power I need. From there on I think I may actually be able to figure things out after you answering about 200 of my questions over the past week or two.
Thanks, and don't be suprised if I'm back again in a week :P
It's more of a general question, but just for specifics, I have a 2000 neon (pretty limited room, my back seat might be parting ways with me soon). I'm planning on moving up to 2 JL Audio 13w7's and 1000/1 amps to push each one.
Smaller questions are, how much should I trust someone to build a custom enclosure for my car that would have the proper specs?
Oh, and before i resort to duct tape, any ideas or known products that an prevent a rear view mirror from rattling (or falling off the windshield in my lap while im driving)?
I know these are dorky questions but I just found the site today and you guys seem to know everything. Thanks.
- luminoso@outgun.com
Replies (20)
uochronos on 05/24/2004 14:51:51
as far as the rearview mirror falling off i suggest better glue. as for it reattling find one at an auto parts stor that doesnt. mine moves around alot but makes no noise. where as my old car had one that was all lose and rattled alot.
the direction the sub is faced can make differnce but not a huge one usualy its mroe of a taste thing personaly always point them which ever direction they have the most room in front of them.
wow thats alot of sub for that little car 2 jl 13W7's are going to damn near kill you.... not to discourage you but i suggest you hear a single 13W7 in a car that size it might save you a 1500$+. a second sub is only going to ad 3db of sound aproxamatly anyway. but one of these bad boys is more then capable..
for box building find a reputable place to build one and then check that the box they make is to jl specs if its not and thats what you asked for then they have some explaining to do. i personaly have had boxes build before by 2 differnt local places and both times they did each place did a nice job. remember though what you pay for is what you get if one place wanst 300$ and the other 50$ then be sceptical of the lower one because they are cutting corners somewhere. and remeber you can always negotiate a bit if the qoute you for 300$ tell them you really have a budget of 250 you can go over and they well usualy come down a bit. especialy if its the same place you buy the sub and amp they well suualy come down quite a bit with a purchase of that magnatude.
swez on 05/25/2004 22:17:02
As for sub placement, most of the research I have read and tried, shows the best overall response when the subs are butted up against the rear seat backs and aimed to the rear of the car. You can try various orientations, but this one mentioned works best for most guys.
Also, I agree with Chronos that you may want to start with 1 JL and 1 amp first. They are not cheap for one. And for #2, the power drain on your car electrical system will be substancial with dual 1000 watt amps. Not sure on the exact numbers here, but a typical 1000 watt (RMS) amp will draw 100A. of current at high output. Even with one of these amps in the system, you will most likely have to modify your electrical system. (Ie: HO ALT & high CCA rated BAT)
Finally, the windshield will flex a great deal with this much BASS SPL. A good 2 part epoxy may keep the shoe in place, bit the mirror will still vibrate so badly, you cannot see well anyway. Am wondering if one of those wide view mirror systems might work better for you. The kind that span the entire width of your windshield??? If this can be employed and not attached to windshield, it may be more useful than the common window mount type.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 09:40:52
be carefull on the window. my subs knocked my mirror off so i bought that rear view mirror epoxy at autozone. i clean surfaces followed directions, well it turned out epoxy worked too well, it actually ripped the chunk of glass out that my mirror was connected too. it broke it all the way through to the safty sheet between the windshield. that is the only possible thing that could have happened. there was not a crack in that spot before and nor is the outside cracked. i just scribed a line all the way around the missing chunk to prevent further spreading of the crack. i may be becuase the car was old but i have never seen that before. can take pictures to show if you want too see it. good luck.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 09:54:05
First off, 2 JL 13W7's in a 2000 Neon is going to be enough to cause you to go deaf and possibly many other maladies. Or if you prefer to keep your hearing you will need to play the music so low that you will never be able to utilize the $3000 setup that you have.
1 12W7 with a 1000/1 amp is enough bass to fill the entire cabin of my suburban so that You can't hear anything else but it at half volume. At full volume it is enough to shake and rattle other cars rear view mirrors as you pass by with the windows down.
I strongly recommend that you go down to a local JL audio installer and ask if they have any W7 installs that happen to be in the shop at the moment and ask them to play it for you so you realize just how much bass you are talking about.
Secondly a setup like that is going to severely drain the power system on that vehicle. So unless you are thinking about upgrading alternators, batteries and numerous other things it may not be the way to go. Understand that my setup has cost me a small fortune in most peoples minds just to be able to listen to the bass lines on some of my favorite tracks.
Finally, the specs on the JL audio boxes calls for inch and a half thick board so that the box itself doesn't self destruct at higher volumes. The 13W7 requires an additional 3 inches of width and 2 inches of height and depth when compared to the 12W7 so you are looking at boxes that are roughly 2 feet wide by a foot and a half high and deep. Times 2 that is 4 feet wide. A second 12W7 would take up the remainder of the trunk in my Suburban. I can only imagine the sacrifice of installing that in a neon.
My recommendation is before you do anything regarding purchases is to go down to the local JL installer and request to hear the setup in a vehicle that they may have in back. This is the only way you will get an idea of how much power you are really talking about.
swez on 05/26/2004 09:54:54
Yep, I've seen that happen before too. Cannot remember which vehicle I had, but the mirror came off a few times in summer heat. I used that mirror adhesive after proper cleaning of the glass. It worked fine for a while then I came out one day to go to work and the mirror & shoe were lying on the dash board and a nice divot of glass out of the windshield as well.
Did not have subs then... just bad roads to drive on. Just repositioned the mirror to hide the divot, but used a clean site to mount the mirror again. It was a leased Company car, so I did not worry about replacing the windshield as it was fine for months before I got a new car.
Swez
luminoso on 05/26/2004 14:19:16
I've already planned for the small fortune thing. The car is pretty much already a 2 seater with what I already have. The rear seats have been folded down for the last year and a half to make room. Someone already informed me that it might be a good idea to look into bullet proof glass before I go ahead with it. I already have a new alternator, battery, and multiple caps. Basically, the car isnt going to be for listening value much anymore, just a giant rolling speaker for when some other testosterone driven jackass like myself wants to argue about who's is bigger. The JL's are questionable though, because I realize they are pricey and would be almost a waste for how i'd be applying them. I'm debating 15'' L7's instead, but it'd still be loud as ****, same problems, and need just as much power. I admit, even to myself it sounds stupid, but I've never claimed to be a bright person, just determined. My girlfriend already bought me a lifetime supply of earplugs. They're both to save my hearing, and help me try to zone out everyone around me saying "bad idea".
uochronos on 05/26/2004 14:32:33
i'm puting a single 12" elemental designs with 1200+watts rms to it in my truck so i dont think you have a bad idea. i think it is just rough around the edges... another sub from what i understand well only add 3db that is such a small amount that i dont even know if at that kind of volume if you would even be able to notice the second subs add to the system... and what kind of alternator did you upgrade too? from my calculations you well need around 160amps and thats a very low guess just to run the sub amplifiers.
the only reason i can see getting the extra 3db of sound from another sub is if you where professionaly doing spl compititions in your car. this system with a single 13w7 i would think would hit over 140db as is without trouble. at that volume you would go deaf if you where in the cabin of your car. if your just looking to compete with random people around town then more then that isnt needed. i had a set of alpine type R 10" subs off 600watt in my truck and my old car before that,. and they where louder then 90% of the people i came across on the street.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 14:42:44
have you heard of a company called adire audio? they make some top of the line equipment. they have a series called the brahma which handles 1600 watts rms, has 28mm one way x-max. thats insane way more than the L7 or the W7, the 15 inch model goes for 449 way less that the W7.. they also make a series called tumult, this is same power handling as the brahma but has 34mm one way x-max. that will definitly move some air, one of them and you will be raddling houses 5 blocks away.. im not saying dont go with the W7 but for the price comparison im thinkin the adire audio may be more suitable for ya/
www.adireaudio.com then goto raw drives if you want to check them out. have fun good luck
luminoso on 05/26/2004 14:52:26
Sounds tight. I am beginning to re-think things. Not as much because its too much, but because as you all mentioned, its more money for not much difference. I'm either going to simply save money by getting less costly equipment, or go with maybe 4 smaller subs instead of 2 enormous ones, to end up at about the same power. My alternator now is supposed to be 140 amps I believe, but I was going to see if I could find something about 250 that i can work into my car. Sucks in my 2000 neon though, the alternator is practically hiding underneath the engine.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 15:05:06
250 amps would definitly do the trick, never have to worry bout going through town again and having your lights go out. yea id definitly rethink your strategy here.. can still go with two 15 inch subs just dont go with the hightest model out there. have you heard the W3's. the dual 15inch in the custom jl slot port box. thats crazy loud and can be had for less than the W7. i myself have 2 15inch kicker comp vrs in a custom box for my back seat and they are extremely loud for the money i have into them.. but if you wanted like 3 12s or sumthing that will get really loud too. just have to match your equipment well. dont get a 2000 watt rms sub and only a 300 watt amp... ya know what i mean.
luminoso on 05/26/2004 15:17:22
Money isn't really an issue once i can figure out whats best for my dumbass desires. As far as mating subs and amps, I've always done well. Right now I only have 2 12''s and they already bang out more than 90% of the people around here, and they're about 5 years old at that. I got them before I had my drivers license. Basically the point now isn't just loud, but something to show off. The top of the line models are hard to stay away from with my shallow goals.
Here's a question though, I love sharp punchy bass over the long dull sounding kind. How can I go to the extreme to make the bass hit like someone's kicking the back of my seat over just booming so loud it drowns everything out?
uochronos on 05/26/2004 15:54:41
the larger subs are going to hit lower and less punch. 8's are almost all punch 10's are punchy with a decent low end. 12's are a great mix of both. and 15+ are mainly just boom... 2 12" w3's or w6's would do the trick or 3 10" w3's sound bad ass too. a friend has 3 10" w3 version 1's in his truck and they rattle **** blocks away. only 1200watts to them also.
some huigh end subs tolook at are
Adire audio brahmas
elemental designs a series(soon a series version 2)
phoenix gold just release a sub that handles tons of power and has a max excursion of almost 3 inches one way its an amazing spl sub. also anyone interested in this they also just release an amazing amp its a 4 channel amp that puts out 2500watts rms per channel.
elemental designs are my favorites listed i suggest you check them out i have the lowest model in my wifes car abnd for 300watts rms it pounds out the bass loud and clear. there current a series handles up to 1400watts rms and is compared bto the jl audio w7. and there a series V2 coming soon is promised to blow some minds.
luminoso on 05/26/2004 16:03:54
well, i'll stay at 12's then, i want the sharp thump, the question now is which ones and how many.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 16:30:22
I will stick by what I have said in the past which is if SPL is your main consideration then do not worry about the $750 subwoofers just pick up a set of the brahma's or some other strong SPL sub (It doesn't matter too much) and spend the rest of the money on amplifiers and batteries to feed that one or two subs.
To me that sounds like what it is that you are after anyways. Is to be the top dog on the block. SPL is about Quantity not Quality. Buying the high end SQ stuff is just gonna limit you when you are trying to maximize your SPL.
compvr15s on 05/26/2004 16:53:12
brahmas have excellent soung quality as well, probably better than the jl subs.
Raefin on 05/26/2004 17:04:23
If that is the case then get those. You will have the best SPL speaker, the best SQ speaker, and the cheapest all wrapped up in one.
swez on 05/26/2004 20:09:09
Agreed, a pair of Brahma 12's in a small sealed enclosure will really punch your back rest. These subs in a 0.85 -1.0 cf/sub enclosure will surely deliver both HIGH SPL and great SQ. A very good balance of both = SQL max.
If you want a bit more SPL, a ported enclosure with a tuning frequency near car internal resonance will add ~+6dB at port tuning frequency. You'll have to filter off anything below port tuning frequency to avoid damaging the subs.
Some go a step further in enclosure design too. They use a dual port system. One for daily driving, the other when they want to knock their guts loose. That's an option if you want the most from any major sub player in the SPL game.
Swez
luminoso on 05/30/2004 18:48:54
alright, sounds sweet. Those subs are like 1600 watts each though right? got any suggestions for amps? And, I still have to check up on whether the 250amp alternator will actually fit, but even if it does, will that be enough for a 3200++ watt system? What about wiring? I've seen a lot of parts for wiring that wont even work for wire widths over 4 and 0 gauge. Is that gonna be a problem?
swez on 05/30/2004 20:04:31
If you go with the Adire Brahma 12's, (2+2 DVC configuration) figure a small to medium sized port enclosure. As for amping them, yes... the voice coils can take 1600 watts RMS, but depending on the enclosure size, the maximum excursion limits (X-Max.) of 34 mm/~1.3" (one way) will be reached long before you get to that power range. (say ~800 -1000 watts per sub)
Have to understand the physics behind this adventure. High SPL is about moving large amounts of air. Woffers are akin to large air pistons. Just like car engines... "there's no replacement for displacement". The more air you can move with a given sub design, the more SPL you get... period!
FYI: Scotty Johnson has a 9 x 15 Brahmas' install and dedicated amps to each sub. He has hit 174 dB with this syetem already and looking to break the 175 dB barrier. The power plant needed to power all these amps is enormous. I think he has several ALTS and BATS to power them all. Not to mention the weight he has added with all this gear. That's EXTREME Class SPL. Was on their old website. But the new format is still adding segments. You can call or write Adire for additional details and product specs.
techsupport@adireaudio.com OR...
http://www.adireaudio.com/CompanyInfo/info.htm
Where to next luminoso?
Swez
luminoso on 06/2/2004 17:25:51
The Bank? I just found out today I'm getting a promotion making almost twice the money I am now. Good ****. Comes also with a longer commute to work everyday. More stereo will make the time fly by so I'm definately going to go ahead. I guess now it's just figuring out specs for the enclosure as you told me, then I can figure out how much power I need. From there on I think I may actually be able to figure things out after you answering about 200 of my questions over the past week or two.
Thanks, and don't be suprised if I'm back again in a week :P
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