anyone has experience with sony es xm5026 2-channel amp? this is an old model (98-99 i believe) but the price is within my budget. i read that this amp is 1 ohm stereo stable and hence can run 2 ohm mono. is this true?
i have a 4-channel powering my front and rear. this will be my first amp for sub (jbl gt3-10 200W rms). american and european brands (mtx, kicker, blaupunkt) are damn expensive here. advice urgently needed. TIA
Replies (14)
compvr15s on 05/20/2004 09:20:05
i would tend to stay away from sony in car audio. i know that they tend to over rate their procducts to boost sales. have you looked into jbls class d amps? they have a 150. 300. 600. and 1200 watt model. one of the best bang for your buck buys out there right now, they actually under rate their products so you can expect a lil more than they post.. http://www.purecaraudio.com ---- carries all of the models mentioned if your interested. the 300.1 runs for 170 on sale, these amps dont look pretty but they will definitly get the job done. i think all modes but the 150 are 1 omh stabe. the top three models boast the same performace at 1 omh or 2ohm, it doesnt matter. good luck im not sayin dont buy the sony if its a good price but much better equipment is out there at cheaper prices people are jsut scared to take a leap into the unkown.
swez on 05/20/2004 10:00:08
Agreed, Sony products are very difficult to get information on. The limited details we do get from Sony web site are skewed badly to make the uninformed shopper think they are getting something special when it's often inferior to others brands in same power and price range.
I checked Google search engine for data on this model and nothing of value popped up.
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/20/2004 21:43:32
i agree that their products are overrated. and their own web site is not much of a help either. my other options are alpine amps - mrv-t320 (or t420) 2-channel, mrd-m300 mono amp. but since my jbl is a SVC, and i don't intend to run 2 subs, i guess a 2-channel would be more appropriate? like i said, this is my first sub setup, and i really 'hope' to get it right the first time :) btw, my new HU will be alpine 9813 (for mp3s).
here are the specs of the alpines ...and thanks for the feedback!
rms power (12v 20hz - 200hz)
t320: 150w x 1 4ohm
75w x 2 2ohm
40w x 2 4ohm
t420: 240w x 1 4ohm
120w x 2 2ohm
75w x 2 4ohm
m300: 200w 2ohm
100w 4ohm
sawyer16v on 05/21/2004 03:01:21
I ran the 4 channel version of what you are looking at - sony xm5046 - and I agree with the others that they are overpriced. Sony mobile es stuff used to at least look decent, now it's just plain trendy. Anyway, back to the amp in question:
Pros - clean sound, ran cool 4ohm bridged, variable crossover
Cons - inflated power ratings, $$$ ($299 new)
I'd pay no more than $50 for the 2 channel and I'd definitely look around as there are so many good deals to be had on amps these days. HTH
uochronos on 05/21/2004 04:29:40
i well tell you the JBL:150 and 300 power series amps are very nice i got a 300.1 on sale on ebay for under 150$ shipped brand new. and i even actualy like how the amp looks its basic looking but the back lit logo looks very nice where its mounted. in my opinion its the best amp for the money i have seen in quite a long time new. 2 channel amp or 1 channel well work equaly well but a 2 channel well pull way more power 20% aprox. more from your electrical system. where as a 1 channel well put out the same power but take less from your electrical system. and the jbl is 2 ohm stable or 1 ohm stable. also this amp is 300watts which well fit your sub well so that your not going to be clipping since you well be giving it a bit more power then it needs.
swez on 05/21/2004 09:39:38
Looking at your sub options, I assume these are 4 ohm, single voice coil subs? Something like the GT100 series???
If these are 4 ohm subs, all 3 in parallel will net a 1.33 ohm net resistance to the amp. There are only a few medium power amps out there that will accept this load. The JBL BP-series would be an excellent fit as they are 1 ohm stable. JBL makes the 150, 300, 600 & 1200 watt (RMS) Class D MONO amps. In this case, a BP-300 or BP-600 will serve you well.
http://www.jbl.com/ May have to look in archives for these amps as a new series has replaced the original PowerValve series.
Swez
The Alpine amps mentioned are good products, but these are limited to a 2 ohm load.
judymtb2181 on 05/21/2004 20:49:30
yes, it is a 4ohm svc sub, for international market i believe. i intend to run only 1 sub-real basic setup. JBL are nice, i know, but it costs twice as much (most non-japanese brand) over here as in US. take MTX for example; the 6500D costs about US$600.
guess i just have to search harder for a 'decent' amp :
uochronos on 05/21/2004 23:22:25
you could buy a amp off ebay such as the jbl and just pay shiping i have sold and shipped stuff to canada and the UK cost under 100$ to send a 5lb pacakge to the uk. so if you could nab a jbl for 100$ like i did on ebay that still only a 200$ amp.
zInal3 on 05/22/2004 08:49:25
where are you from judy? malaysia ?
swez on 05/22/2004 14:04:04
Ahhhh, only 1 sub and SVC 4 ohm at that... simplifies things a lot...
The Sony mentioned will do the job when bridged to MONO. Any decent 2 channel will work here if bridged. As long as the amp has a low pass filter (LPF) so the sub only gets the lows. (80-100 Hz) That is a typical setting for the LPF for sub applications.
I misunderstood your original question... thinking you had 3 subs @ 4 ohms each. Thanks for claifying that detail.
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/23/2004 21:14:33
yes, only 1 sub. sorry, should have said it clearer. ok, i guess that part is done and thanks for the help! the next thing is my crossover setup. the 9813 has built in 2/3-way crossover, and i'm thinking of setting it 3-way. this is what i have: 5.25" component (tweeters on dash, woofers on door), coaxial 6x9 on rear deck, and sub. would - 200Hz high pass for component, 200Hz - 80Hz bandpass for 6x9 (don't suppose i want high at the back), 80Hz low for the sub - be a good idea? i just wanna have a 'guideline' to set it up. the HU has octave from 6dB down to 24dB.
swez on 05/23/2004 21:43:38
This will all be by ear since you make no mention of test gear. (Ie: RTA and signal generator) Is this the Alpine CDA-9813? Nice unit and you'll need a #10 gage power feed off the + BAT for this one.
Front stage speakers: Set HP filter for front speakers between 80-100 Hz for starters. No cut, no boost for now. (FLAT)
Rear Stage speakers: You have 2 options depending on your tastes...
1. Set HPF to ~60 Hz. This is for full range. Again, no cut or boost at this time. (FLAT)
2. If you want only midbass in rear, use bandpass settings between 60 on low end, 300 Hz. on high end cutoff. Again, no boost, no cuts.
Finally, set your sub LP filter at 80 Hz. Only bass here and moderate boost or cut as desired. For initial setup, shut off the sub to define the mids and highs. This can be done by the Bass Engine controls.
OK, that's your baseline settings for now. Pop in a CD you like and know very well and just listen to the mix. If the system is very bright with too much high end, can cut back on the 3Khz and up range with EQ. If dull and lifeless highs, add a few dB of boost in this range.
If lower mids are thin sounding and no real body to them, notch up the midbass and mids a tad. (250 - 800 Hz range) to warm things up a bit. If the midbass and midrange are muddy and pooly defined, back off a few dB in range noted.
This HU has 5 band Parametric EQ with 22 variable centering frequencies and several slope settings you can use. Start with 12dB slopes as this is most common for car audio.
Once you get the front and rear stages sounding tight, (blending well) then add your sub power to taste. This is a very complex HU and you may want to experiment with the features, 1 at a time. Once you get a feel for them, it will all make sense.
Good luck and keep in touch on your progress,
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/23/2004 23:22:23
yes, it's Alpine 9813, and YES, that's the words i was looking for - 'blending well'. hehe... that's a whole lot of useful info there. Swez, you mentioned a 10 gauge power to the batt, do i still need this even though i'm not using the internal amp to power the front speakers?
i'm sure i'm gonna have quite a few trials and errors before i can get the HU to sound and work right.....well, to my 'satisfaction' rather :) will keep u posted!
to zInal3: yes, i'm from msia
swez on 05/24/2004 09:54:17
You can try smaller wire... but the install guide stipulates #10 wire for power as it has the V-drive power supply. As I understand it, this HU has a circuit in the power supply that kicks up the voltage (above 13.5 volts) to the power amp section of the HU. That's how it obtains the rated 27 watts RMS per channel, rather than a typical Aftermarket value of 18-22 watts.
Even if you are not using the internal amps, not sure how this system will react to a common #14 wire supply feed. Call me conservative... but if the install manual says "USE #10 FOR POWER FEED"... I would do it just to know I followed the manufacturers' guidelines.
Up to you though,
Swez
i have a 4-channel powering my front and rear. this will be my first amp for sub (jbl gt3-10 200W rms). american and european brands (mtx, kicker, blaupunkt) are damn expensive here. advice urgently needed. TIA
Replies (14)
compvr15s on 05/20/2004 09:20:05
i would tend to stay away from sony in car audio. i know that they tend to over rate their procducts to boost sales. have you looked into jbls class d amps? they have a 150. 300. 600. and 1200 watt model. one of the best bang for your buck buys out there right now, they actually under rate their products so you can expect a lil more than they post.. http://www.purecaraudio.com ---- carries all of the models mentioned if your interested. the 300.1 runs for 170 on sale, these amps dont look pretty but they will definitly get the job done. i think all modes but the 150 are 1 omh stabe. the top three models boast the same performace at 1 omh or 2ohm, it doesnt matter. good luck im not sayin dont buy the sony if its a good price but much better equipment is out there at cheaper prices people are jsut scared to take a leap into the unkown.
swez on 05/20/2004 10:00:08
Agreed, Sony products are very difficult to get information on. The limited details we do get from Sony web site are skewed badly to make the uninformed shopper think they are getting something special when it's often inferior to others brands in same power and price range.
I checked Google search engine for data on this model and nothing of value popped up.
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/20/2004 21:43:32
i agree that their products are overrated. and their own web site is not much of a help either. my other options are alpine amps - mrv-t320 (or t420) 2-channel, mrd-m300 mono amp. but since my jbl is a SVC, and i don't intend to run 2 subs, i guess a 2-channel would be more appropriate? like i said, this is my first sub setup, and i really 'hope' to get it right the first time :) btw, my new HU will be alpine 9813 (for mp3s).
here are the specs of the alpines ...and thanks for the feedback!
rms power (12v 20hz - 200hz)
t320: 150w x 1 4ohm
75w x 2 2ohm
40w x 2 4ohm
t420: 240w x 1 4ohm
120w x 2 2ohm
75w x 2 4ohm
m300: 200w 2ohm
100w 4ohm
sawyer16v on 05/21/2004 03:01:21
I ran the 4 channel version of what you are looking at - sony xm5046 - and I agree with the others that they are overpriced. Sony mobile es stuff used to at least look decent, now it's just plain trendy. Anyway, back to the amp in question:
Pros - clean sound, ran cool 4ohm bridged, variable crossover
Cons - inflated power ratings, $$$ ($299 new)
I'd pay no more than $50 for the 2 channel and I'd definitely look around as there are so many good deals to be had on amps these days. HTH
uochronos on 05/21/2004 04:29:40
i well tell you the JBL:150 and 300 power series amps are very nice i got a 300.1 on sale on ebay for under 150$ shipped brand new. and i even actualy like how the amp looks its basic looking but the back lit logo looks very nice where its mounted. in my opinion its the best amp for the money i have seen in quite a long time new. 2 channel amp or 1 channel well work equaly well but a 2 channel well pull way more power 20% aprox. more from your electrical system. where as a 1 channel well put out the same power but take less from your electrical system. and the jbl is 2 ohm stable or 1 ohm stable. also this amp is 300watts which well fit your sub well so that your not going to be clipping since you well be giving it a bit more power then it needs.
swez on 05/21/2004 09:39:38
Looking at your sub options, I assume these are 4 ohm, single voice coil subs? Something like the GT100 series???
If these are 4 ohm subs, all 3 in parallel will net a 1.33 ohm net resistance to the amp. There are only a few medium power amps out there that will accept this load. The JBL BP-series would be an excellent fit as they are 1 ohm stable. JBL makes the 150, 300, 600 & 1200 watt (RMS) Class D MONO amps. In this case, a BP-300 or BP-600 will serve you well.
http://www.jbl.com/ May have to look in archives for these amps as a new series has replaced the original PowerValve series.
Swez
The Alpine amps mentioned are good products, but these are limited to a 2 ohm load.
judymtb2181 on 05/21/2004 20:49:30
yes, it is a 4ohm svc sub, for international market i believe. i intend to run only 1 sub-real basic setup. JBL are nice, i know, but it costs twice as much (most non-japanese brand) over here as in US. take MTX for example; the 6500D costs about US$600.
guess i just have to search harder for a 'decent' amp :
uochronos on 05/21/2004 23:22:25
you could buy a amp off ebay such as the jbl and just pay shiping i have sold and shipped stuff to canada and the UK cost under 100$ to send a 5lb pacakge to the uk. so if you could nab a jbl for 100$ like i did on ebay that still only a 200$ amp.
zInal3 on 05/22/2004 08:49:25
where are you from judy? malaysia ?
swez on 05/22/2004 14:04:04
Ahhhh, only 1 sub and SVC 4 ohm at that... simplifies things a lot...
The Sony mentioned will do the job when bridged to MONO. Any decent 2 channel will work here if bridged. As long as the amp has a low pass filter (LPF) so the sub only gets the lows. (80-100 Hz) That is a typical setting for the LPF for sub applications.
I misunderstood your original question... thinking you had 3 subs @ 4 ohms each. Thanks for claifying that detail.
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/23/2004 21:14:33
yes, only 1 sub. sorry, should have said it clearer. ok, i guess that part is done and thanks for the help! the next thing is my crossover setup. the 9813 has built in 2/3-way crossover, and i'm thinking of setting it 3-way. this is what i have: 5.25" component (tweeters on dash, woofers on door), coaxial 6x9 on rear deck, and sub. would - 200Hz high pass for component, 200Hz - 80Hz bandpass for 6x9 (don't suppose i want high at the back), 80Hz low for the sub - be a good idea? i just wanna have a 'guideline' to set it up. the HU has octave from 6dB down to 24dB.
swez on 05/23/2004 21:43:38
This will all be by ear since you make no mention of test gear. (Ie: RTA and signal generator) Is this the Alpine CDA-9813? Nice unit and you'll need a #10 gage power feed off the + BAT for this one.
Front stage speakers: Set HP filter for front speakers between 80-100 Hz for starters. No cut, no boost for now. (FLAT)
Rear Stage speakers: You have 2 options depending on your tastes...
1. Set HPF to ~60 Hz. This is for full range. Again, no cut or boost at this time. (FLAT)
2. If you want only midbass in rear, use bandpass settings between 60 on low end, 300 Hz. on high end cutoff. Again, no boost, no cuts.
Finally, set your sub LP filter at 80 Hz. Only bass here and moderate boost or cut as desired. For initial setup, shut off the sub to define the mids and highs. This can be done by the Bass Engine controls.
OK, that's your baseline settings for now. Pop in a CD you like and know very well and just listen to the mix. If the system is very bright with too much high end, can cut back on the 3Khz and up range with EQ. If dull and lifeless highs, add a few dB of boost in this range.
If lower mids are thin sounding and no real body to them, notch up the midbass and mids a tad. (250 - 800 Hz range) to warm things up a bit. If the midbass and midrange are muddy and pooly defined, back off a few dB in range noted.
This HU has 5 band Parametric EQ with 22 variable centering frequencies and several slope settings you can use. Start with 12dB slopes as this is most common for car audio.
Once you get the front and rear stages sounding tight, (blending well) then add your sub power to taste. This is a very complex HU and you may want to experiment with the features, 1 at a time. Once you get a feel for them, it will all make sense.
Good luck and keep in touch on your progress,
Swez
judymtb2181 on 05/23/2004 23:22:23
yes, it's Alpine 9813, and YES, that's the words i was looking for - 'blending well'. hehe... that's a whole lot of useful info there. Swez, you mentioned a 10 gauge power to the batt, do i still need this even though i'm not using the internal amp to power the front speakers?
i'm sure i'm gonna have quite a few trials and errors before i can get the HU to sound and work right.....well, to my 'satisfaction' rather :) will keep u posted!
to zInal3: yes, i'm from msia
swez on 05/24/2004 09:54:17
You can try smaller wire... but the install guide stipulates #10 wire for power as it has the V-drive power supply. As I understand it, this HU has a circuit in the power supply that kicks up the voltage (above 13.5 volts) to the power amp section of the HU. That's how it obtains the rated 27 watts RMS per channel, rather than a typical Aftermarket value of 18-22 watts.
Even if you are not using the internal amps, not sure how this system will react to a common #14 wire supply feed. Call me conservative... but if the install manual says "USE #10 FOR POWER FEED"... I would do it just to know I followed the manufacturers' guidelines.
Up to you though,
Swez
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