sup fellas,
i am getting HORRIBLE sound quality out of my subs. i am running a 2 channel, 800 watt fosgate amp with 2 old kicker CompVR 12's, which max at 400 watts a piece. they are both 4 ohms. i have installed all of my wires and so forth, and the amp turns on fine, but the subs sound terrible. they are definitely making noise, but they should be making a WHOLE lot more.
i guess i don't have my subs wired correctly?? the subs are DVC. i have wired DVC subs before, but these are different. on one side of the sub, there are 2 positive terminals and on the other there are 2 negative terminals. the subs do not work at all when i attempt to connect the DVC, but when they are left off, they start working.
PLEASE HELP ME FELLAS i am very anxious to get my stuff working.
-UKinstaller
Replies (13)
swez on 05/15/2004 20:39:03
Which DVC's do you have now? The Comp VR's come in 4+4 & 2+2 DVC's. Depending on the subs you have, we may be able to help you out.
If these are 4+4 DVC's you can wire each sub at 2 ohms and run 1 sub per channel. (at 2 ohms/channel) This is in stereo.
You can also bridge the amp, wire each sub (series) for 8 ohms, then wire both subs in parallel for a 4 ohm net load. Make sure you have the polarity on all wiring correct. There is a wiring wizard at Kicker to help you with all this:
http://www.kicker.com/images/manuals/CompVRTech
ManualV2_1.pdf
Pages 17 & 18 in the .pdf have wiring options list and the rest is sub specs and enclosure designs.
Have a look and see what you can do with these subs.
Finally, if these are 2+2 DVC's , the best you can do is wire each sub in series (4 ohms net) and wire 1 sub per channel. Use amp in stereo mode. Less power from the amp this way, but it will bump well.
Swez
uochronos on 05/15/2004 22:43:28
i may be off bass here but if your giving each sub 400watts rms and the subs are 400watts max could the bad sound quality nto be because they are over powering them and they are hitting xmax. because if they are 400watts max they are probaly 200watts rms.
Tinker18 on 05/15/2004 22:59:44
if you are running these subs at their limit, then that is a bad thing, you seriously run the risk of blowing them. are the subs wired at a two ohm load now or a 4 ohm load? if ran at a 4 ohm load,bridged, you are sending way too much power to those subs, i think you could run them @ two ohms, which should put less power into the amp, being a two channel amp.which should be 200 to each sub, although i may be wrong. what is the amp model #?
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 01:33:58
hey buds,
thanks for the replies. i messed with my subs tonite, and it turns out that i am a much bigger schmuck than i thought. they are single voice coil subs. what i did was:
wired the subs in parallel, and ran the pos. and neg.wires to one of my channels, i did NOT bridge them. is this the best way to do it?? they are really banging now, but if there is a better way to do this, let me know.
also, when i had each sub hooked up to its own channel earlier today and everything sounded like crap, the amp became hot to the touch after about two minutes of use, so hot that it could burn. the way i have it now, though, it is staying very very cool. it is a Rockford Fosgate Punch 800a2.
THANKS FELLAS
-UKinstaller
uochronos on 05/16/2004 01:45:49
it should never get that hot it weas over heating do to too low and ohm or or sopme other reason because of the wrong wiring.
swez on 05/16/2004 09:56:58
Agreed... you may have a bad channel on this amp. Normally, if you has SVC, 4ohm subs, the only safe way to wire them to this amp is 1 sub per channel. As long as the subs are wired properly, (in phase) they should sound fine.
Try wiring the subs as you have them now, on the unused channel and see what you get. If the subs sound bad... that channel has an interal problem . Probably a few fried output transistors.
Finally, I am a bit confused as to what subs you actually have here. The Kicker Comps are SVC, 4 ohm. Kicker Comp VR's are DVC, either 2+2 or 4+4 Dual Voice Coils. (DVC's) Please confirm what you actually have here OK?
Swez
PS This is one of the better amps made by RF in the good ol days, A true 800 RMS @ 4 ohms bridged, 200 RMS @ 4 ohms/ch. , 400 RMS @ 2 ohms/ch.
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 17:29:57
sorry about the confusion. these subs say Kicker CompVR on the speakers, but they only have single voice coils. Is this unheard of or something?? I know very little about them, other than that they are 400 watts a piece and 4 ohms.
last night and today I have been pounding them hard to test them out, and everything is working great. the amp is staying very very cool, no overheating whatsoever as i had earlier. they are wired in parallel, running to one channel, not bridged. i haven't tried hooking them up to the other channel yet, but should they sound the exact same?? also, should I try bridging them??
thanks for the help fellas,
-UKinstaller
swez on 05/16/2004 18:24:39
Try wiring them as now, only on the other channel and dtermine how they sound on the other channel If same, the amp may be fine. If you have a notable change in performance or the amp heats up, that channel may have some problems internally.
DO NOT BRIDGE the amp with these subs in parallel. (2 ohm load) This amp is designed for a minimum load of 4 ohms when bridged. Anything less thn 4 ohms, the amp will heat up and shut down as thermal protection circuits will activate.
If you want to bridge the amp with these subs, will have to wire the subs in SERIES for an 8 ohm load only. The amp output will be half of its full power (~400 RMS) or 200 RMS per sub. That is safe for the amp and subs... assuming the amp is good working order.
Good luck,
Swez
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 19:26:21
grand master swez,
last question(s) man. both of my channels work fine. do you recommend bridging in series or running one channel in parallel as i have now?? also, i have an MTX crossover sitting around that i have never used, should i hook it up or is the crossover on the amp satisfactory?? i would mess with this stuff myself but i'd rather hear it from the pros.
-UKinstaller
swez on 05/17/2004 10:19:47
Grand Master??? Oh, you are too kind sir... but thanks for the kuddos!
With the subs you have now, your best bet is to wire one sub per channel. That will balance out the amp power and load and you will still get + 200 RMS per sub. Set your Low Pass Filter (LPF) between 80-100 Hz. Make sure you observe polarity of wiring when connecting subs in stereo mode. If they sound weak in bass, switch on set of output wires at the amp and see if that pulls it all together.
That MTX crossover may or may not be useful to your application at the moment. Do you have the model # of that device? The amp has adequate crossovers built in, so adding additional crossovers may not be helpful. In fact, you may wind up with noise issues that will really have you pulling your hair out to debug. Sometimes... less is actually more.
Comments?
Swez
PS If you bridged the amp MONO and wired these subs in series (8 ohms load) same power output as 1 sub per channel stereo. If you really want to get the most from this amp, need to get a pair of 4+4 DVC subs that can handle ~400 watts RMS each. You think the system pounds now... there's more this amp can deliver... but not with the subs you have now.
UKinstaller on 05/17/2004 22:50:26
well i can't complain about these subs because i got both of them for 35 bucks total. can't beat it with a stick. but you're saying this amp can do more eh?? well someday i will have something bigger and better.
the model of the crossover is RT-X02A. i have never used it, but my friend had it with the same amp and two viper 12's and it sounded amazing. any suggestions??
-UKinstaller
PS. i got a job installing at circuit city today. it is my first job installiing and they have a good training program i hear. i'm pretty excited.
swez on 05/18/2004 10:48:19
Hey UK,
Congrats on your new job as an installer. Should learn a lot and it will be interesting to see/hear how well these guys adhere to the install techniques often discussed here. Avoid bickering with the old stallwarts that "know it all". Just learn what you can, as you work. Debates from newbies rarely win points with the old hands. They do what they do as that is what they learned over time.
That amp is giving you ~50% of the power it is able to deliver right now. Your using ~ 400 watts of the 800 watts available. With better subs, you can easily pick up +6dB more bass... morfe if you go ported.
That MTX crossover has some nice features. The best feature is a preamp feature that boosts RCA voltage to the amp. However, if you don't have problems now, no real need for it at this time. The worst feature is the bass boost. (+12dB @45 Hz.) Most well designed systems do not need it and it can damage the subs if overused.
Swez
UKinstaller on 05/18/2004 14:05:52
thanks alot for all of your help. my first day is saturday. i'll let you guys know about it. oh yeah, and i'm not gonna mess with that crossover just yet.
take it easy,
-UK
i am getting HORRIBLE sound quality out of my subs. i am running a 2 channel, 800 watt fosgate amp with 2 old kicker CompVR 12's, which max at 400 watts a piece. they are both 4 ohms. i have installed all of my wires and so forth, and the amp turns on fine, but the subs sound terrible. they are definitely making noise, but they should be making a WHOLE lot more.
i guess i don't have my subs wired correctly?? the subs are DVC. i have wired DVC subs before, but these are different. on one side of the sub, there are 2 positive terminals and on the other there are 2 negative terminals. the subs do not work at all when i attempt to connect the DVC, but when they are left off, they start working.
PLEASE HELP ME FELLAS i am very anxious to get my stuff working.
-UKinstaller
Replies (13)
swez on 05/15/2004 20:39:03
Which DVC's do you have now? The Comp VR's come in 4+4 & 2+2 DVC's. Depending on the subs you have, we may be able to help you out.
If these are 4+4 DVC's you can wire each sub at 2 ohms and run 1 sub per channel. (at 2 ohms/channel) This is in stereo.
You can also bridge the amp, wire each sub (series) for 8 ohms, then wire both subs in parallel for a 4 ohm net load. Make sure you have the polarity on all wiring correct. There is a wiring wizard at Kicker to help you with all this:
http://www.kicker.com/images/manuals/CompVRTech
ManualV2_1.pdf
Pages 17 & 18 in the .pdf have wiring options list and the rest is sub specs and enclosure designs.
Have a look and see what you can do with these subs.
Finally, if these are 2+2 DVC's , the best you can do is wire each sub in series (4 ohms net) and wire 1 sub per channel. Use amp in stereo mode. Less power from the amp this way, but it will bump well.
Swez
uochronos on 05/15/2004 22:43:28
i may be off bass here but if your giving each sub 400watts rms and the subs are 400watts max could the bad sound quality nto be because they are over powering them and they are hitting xmax. because if they are 400watts max they are probaly 200watts rms.
Tinker18 on 05/15/2004 22:59:44
if you are running these subs at their limit, then that is a bad thing, you seriously run the risk of blowing them. are the subs wired at a two ohm load now or a 4 ohm load? if ran at a 4 ohm load,bridged, you are sending way too much power to those subs, i think you could run them @ two ohms, which should put less power into the amp, being a two channel amp.which should be 200 to each sub, although i may be wrong. what is the amp model #?
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 01:33:58
hey buds,
thanks for the replies. i messed with my subs tonite, and it turns out that i am a much bigger schmuck than i thought. they are single voice coil subs. what i did was:
wired the subs in parallel, and ran the pos. and neg.wires to one of my channels, i did NOT bridge them. is this the best way to do it?? they are really banging now, but if there is a better way to do this, let me know.
also, when i had each sub hooked up to its own channel earlier today and everything sounded like crap, the amp became hot to the touch after about two minutes of use, so hot that it could burn. the way i have it now, though, it is staying very very cool. it is a Rockford Fosgate Punch 800a2.
THANKS FELLAS
-UKinstaller
uochronos on 05/16/2004 01:45:49
it should never get that hot it weas over heating do to too low and ohm or or sopme other reason because of the wrong wiring.
swez on 05/16/2004 09:56:58
Agreed... you may have a bad channel on this amp. Normally, if you has SVC, 4ohm subs, the only safe way to wire them to this amp is 1 sub per channel. As long as the subs are wired properly, (in phase) they should sound fine.
Try wiring the subs as you have them now, on the unused channel and see what you get. If the subs sound bad... that channel has an interal problem . Probably a few fried output transistors.
Finally, I am a bit confused as to what subs you actually have here. The Kicker Comps are SVC, 4 ohm. Kicker Comp VR's are DVC, either 2+2 or 4+4 Dual Voice Coils. (DVC's) Please confirm what you actually have here OK?
Swez
PS This is one of the better amps made by RF in the good ol days, A true 800 RMS @ 4 ohms bridged, 200 RMS @ 4 ohms/ch. , 400 RMS @ 2 ohms/ch.
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 17:29:57
sorry about the confusion. these subs say Kicker CompVR on the speakers, but they only have single voice coils. Is this unheard of or something?? I know very little about them, other than that they are 400 watts a piece and 4 ohms.
last night and today I have been pounding them hard to test them out, and everything is working great. the amp is staying very very cool, no overheating whatsoever as i had earlier. they are wired in parallel, running to one channel, not bridged. i haven't tried hooking them up to the other channel yet, but should they sound the exact same?? also, should I try bridging them??
thanks for the help fellas,
-UKinstaller
swez on 05/16/2004 18:24:39
Try wiring them as now, only on the other channel and dtermine how they sound on the other channel If same, the amp may be fine. If you have a notable change in performance or the amp heats up, that channel may have some problems internally.
DO NOT BRIDGE the amp with these subs in parallel. (2 ohm load) This amp is designed for a minimum load of 4 ohms when bridged. Anything less thn 4 ohms, the amp will heat up and shut down as thermal protection circuits will activate.
If you want to bridge the amp with these subs, will have to wire the subs in SERIES for an 8 ohm load only. The amp output will be half of its full power (~400 RMS) or 200 RMS per sub. That is safe for the amp and subs... assuming the amp is good working order.
Good luck,
Swez
UKinstaller on 05/16/2004 19:26:21
grand master swez,
last question(s) man. both of my channels work fine. do you recommend bridging in series or running one channel in parallel as i have now?? also, i have an MTX crossover sitting around that i have never used, should i hook it up or is the crossover on the amp satisfactory?? i would mess with this stuff myself but i'd rather hear it from the pros.
-UKinstaller
swez on 05/17/2004 10:19:47
Grand Master??? Oh, you are too kind sir... but thanks for the kuddos!
With the subs you have now, your best bet is to wire one sub per channel. That will balance out the amp power and load and you will still get + 200 RMS per sub. Set your Low Pass Filter (LPF) between 80-100 Hz. Make sure you observe polarity of wiring when connecting subs in stereo mode. If they sound weak in bass, switch on set of output wires at the amp and see if that pulls it all together.
That MTX crossover may or may not be useful to your application at the moment. Do you have the model # of that device? The amp has adequate crossovers built in, so adding additional crossovers may not be helpful. In fact, you may wind up with noise issues that will really have you pulling your hair out to debug. Sometimes... less is actually more.
Comments?
Swez
PS If you bridged the amp MONO and wired these subs in series (8 ohms load) same power output as 1 sub per channel stereo. If you really want to get the most from this amp, need to get a pair of 4+4 DVC subs that can handle ~400 watts RMS each. You think the system pounds now... there's more this amp can deliver... but not with the subs you have now.
UKinstaller on 05/17/2004 22:50:26
well i can't complain about these subs because i got both of them for 35 bucks total. can't beat it with a stick. but you're saying this amp can do more eh?? well someday i will have something bigger and better.
the model of the crossover is RT-X02A. i have never used it, but my friend had it with the same amp and two viper 12's and it sounded amazing. any suggestions??
-UKinstaller
PS. i got a job installing at circuit city today. it is my first job installiing and they have a good training program i hear. i'm pretty excited.
swez on 05/18/2004 10:48:19
Hey UK,
Congrats on your new job as an installer. Should learn a lot and it will be interesting to see/hear how well these guys adhere to the install techniques often discussed here. Avoid bickering with the old stallwarts that "know it all". Just learn what you can, as you work. Debates from newbies rarely win points with the old hands. They do what they do as that is what they learned over time.
That amp is giving you ~50% of the power it is able to deliver right now. Your using ~ 400 watts of the 800 watts available. With better subs, you can easily pick up +6dB more bass... morfe if you go ported.
That MTX crossover has some nice features. The best feature is a preamp feature that boosts RCA voltage to the amp. However, if you don't have problems now, no real need for it at this time. The worst feature is the bass boost. (+12dB @45 Hz.) Most well designed systems do not need it and it can damage the subs if overused.
Swez
UKinstaller on 05/18/2004 14:05:52
thanks alot for all of your help. my first day is saturday. i'll let you guys know about it. oh yeah, and i'm not gonna mess with that crossover just yet.
take it easy,
-UK
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