I just recently got into car audio... it's generally logistics, but I'm looking for information that isn't listed on manufacturers websites.
For my set-up, I want bass that is as clean, and undistorted as possible with a 12" Type-R, with an amp not costing much more than $250 (off topic: can you hook up subs without amps?) I want to stay with the same manufacturer, but I suppose I would suffice for another. I am also buying 6x8 (5x7?) and 6x9 Type-R's as factory replacements... would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace all of the existing wires?
I guess my questions are:
Two, or four ohm sub?
Which sub amp?
Type R's or else?
...Speaker amp? (HU is 200W max)
Should I replace the factory wires?
...What gauge wire?
Thanks,
Sean
Replies (12)
uochronos on 04/7/2004 13:42:30
ok alot of questions hear so i'm going to break it down...
1. hooking up a sub without an am is not rerally an option.
2. should be easy to find a 300watt rms amp too power a single type r sub. for instance jbl 300.1 amp perfect for this application on ebay 129$ brand new. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4950&item=3089332110&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
3.i would suggest replacing wires if its an older car 5 years or older. i replace all wires ever even in new vehicles myself but i'm obsessive.
i use 12 guages. for speakers and 10 or 12 for subs.
4.and you would choose 2 or 4 ohm sub to fit the amp yopu get.
also dont be afraid to use more then on brand alpine makes good equi[ment but mixing and matching wont hurt at all some companies make good amps some make good subs and another might make good speakers.
swez on 04/7/2004 20:55:56
If you get 1 sub, get this one:
Alpine SWR-1241D
12" Dual 4-ohm Voice Coil Subwoofer
Key Features:
KevlarŪ-infused pulp cone
1" Santoprene rubber surround
dual 4-ohm, 2" voice coils
frequency response 24-1,000 Hz
power range 100-300 watts RMS (150 watts RMS per coil)
peak power handling 1,000 watts
sensitivity 87 dB
top-mount depth 6-15/16"
sealed box volume: 0.7-1.0 cubic feet
ported box volume: 0.75-1.75 cubic feet
Recommended Box Type: 1, 2, 3
1-year warranty
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/407 $99.00 each
This is a very good all purpose sub and when paired with a JBL 300.1 or Alpine MRD-M300 mono subwoofer amplifier, you have a nice, compact bass engine.
The JBL 300.1
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/JBLBP3001 $139.00
Alpine MRD-M300
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/1286 $149.00
As for car speaker wiring... typically use #16 gage as stock for speakers. If you add an amp to your HU to drive them, and go for 50 RMS x 4 or higher, larger gage wire is a good idea. A #14 wire is adequate here. But the stock wires will still work at 50 watts.
Finally most HU amps are actually between 18-27 watts RMS x 4. Alpine makes a nice HU that nets 27 watts RMS x 4. With this size amp & sub, that is adequate if your speakers are aftermarket. However, they will sound better with higher amp power.
You can try it w/o amps to interior speakers. But if you don't get enough SPL, then adding a good 4 channel will really make your cabin come alive. Just make sure your power wire kit is #4 gage. This will handle 2 amps that pull up to ~100A.
Swez
aposynthesi on 04/8/2004 00:18:39
I found that HypAudio.com is actually $15 less, since they supply free shipping... but I don't know if they're trustworthy. Yahoo says they are.
My head unit is the JVC HC9750(?), which has a MOSFET 200W amp in it, and it's 25x4... and yeah, I was thinking about getting an amp for the four speakers also, but not right now... money is tight.
I really commend you swez and uochronos, moreso you... swez though... as you've replied to nearly every post on this forum, helping everyone out tremendously. Thanks... both of you.
swez on 04/8/2004 08:09:06
Thank you for the kuddos. Try my best to keep our readers well supplied with "news they can use". Chronos is learning his chops and I can see him graduating to Gold status this year. He is doing a fine job now.
The learning curve is high on this technology initially. But in time, much of the work is repeated as new folks come to the site. That's why we use a team approach here. Some are gereralists while others are specialists in a given area. Blending these skills and personalities to a workable solution, has been a lot of fun. For the most part, a very tight group of very bright people here in the site.
Many are in school now, so they visit as they can.
Swez
PS Welcome to CK & tell your friends.... thanks to our Web host Walter Hargrave, there is a clear voice of reason presented on the Web.
aposynthesi on 06/2/2004 01:09:31
Ok... I got the speakers installed. How much better would they sound with the Alpine MRV-F340 amp?
swez on 06/2/2004 12:59:26
Yep, that amp will help your mid/highs well. You can expect ~+3 dB per speaker with this amp ober the HU amps in your JVC.
The amount of power you want, will be determined by the power handling ability (RMS power please) of your speakers. If the speakers are rated at 30-50 RMS each, this amp is a winner. If the speakers are closer to 75 watts RMS/each, you can go a bit larger on the amp if more SPL is desired in the mids/highs.
You may have to limit the lows going to the 5x7" speakers. These are smaller, cannot take much bass power. Filter these with amps' HPF to say 150 Hz and up.
The 6x9's can do a better job at midbass frequencies. The HPF here, can be set closer to 80 Hz for good Midbass performance. The sub will do everything below ~80 Hz well.
Swez
aposynthesi on 06/12/2004 15:00:56
Would any of you like me to throw a page up of photos that I've been taking during my install, as well as difficulties that I had and things that I've learned by doing this for the first time? I caaaaan...
swez on 06/12/2004 21:32:32
Sure! That's what CK is all about... sharing knowledge.
SoundDomain.com has a lot of install pics and details listed. Get your pics together, add some commentary and let us know the URL when finished.
Swez
aposynthesi on 06/13/2004 18:04:58
I loathe fiberglass.
swez on 06/14/2004 10:04:58
Amen to that one bro... gotta suit up and cover every inch of exposed skin and if you are doing fiberglass enclosures or fixtures, cover everything in are with plastic sheeting or garbage bags. Also, work in a well ventilated area when working with resins and hardeners.
Swez SMILE
aposynthesi on 06/14/2004 16:18:07
So uh... "mission fiberglass" was a failure. It got really frayed, so that means that if body filler went on top of frayed peices... chaos would unleash. Also, my carpet wasn't tight enough, so it's droopy in about 5 little sections.
I'll still post pictures and everything... this is only the beginning of my combat with physical labor.
swez on 06/15/2004 17:26:04
That's a good lesson to learn from. What do you think went wrong in the glassing job? Ummmm, failure need not be final ya know. Only if we quit or do not try again without some skilled hands to guide us the 2nd time around.
Even if you have to grind/sand it all off and try again, something good will be learned... YOU CAN DO THIS if you are determined and armed with the proper materials, process and persistance.
Hang in there,
Swez
PS There's always duct tape ya know... SMILE
For my set-up, I want bass that is as clean, and undistorted as possible with a 12" Type-R, with an amp not costing much more than $250 (off topic: can you hook up subs without amps?) I want to stay with the same manufacturer, but I suppose I would suffice for another. I am also buying 6x8 (5x7?) and 6x9 Type-R's as factory replacements... would it be a good idea to go ahead and replace all of the existing wires?
I guess my questions are:
Two, or four ohm sub?
Which sub amp?
Type R's or else?
...Speaker amp? (HU is 200W max)
Should I replace the factory wires?
...What gauge wire?
Thanks,
Sean
Replies (12)
uochronos on 04/7/2004 13:42:30
ok alot of questions hear so i'm going to break it down...
1. hooking up a sub without an am is not rerally an option.
2. should be easy to find a 300watt rms amp too power a single type r sub. for instance jbl 300.1 amp perfect for this application on ebay 129$ brand new. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4950&item=3089332110&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
3.i would suggest replacing wires if its an older car 5 years or older. i replace all wires ever even in new vehicles myself but i'm obsessive.
i use 12 guages. for speakers and 10 or 12 for subs.
4.and you would choose 2 or 4 ohm sub to fit the amp yopu get.
also dont be afraid to use more then on brand alpine makes good equi[ment but mixing and matching wont hurt at all some companies make good amps some make good subs and another might make good speakers.
swez on 04/7/2004 20:55:56
If you get 1 sub, get this one:
Alpine SWR-1241D
12" Dual 4-ohm Voice Coil Subwoofer
Key Features:
KevlarŪ-infused pulp cone
1" Santoprene rubber surround
dual 4-ohm, 2" voice coils
frequency response 24-1,000 Hz
power range 100-300 watts RMS (150 watts RMS per coil)
peak power handling 1,000 watts
sensitivity 87 dB
top-mount depth 6-15/16"
sealed box volume: 0.7-1.0 cubic feet
ported box volume: 0.75-1.75 cubic feet
Recommended Box Type: 1, 2, 3
1-year warranty
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/407 $99.00 each
This is a very good all purpose sub and when paired with a JBL 300.1 or Alpine MRD-M300 mono subwoofer amplifier, you have a nice, compact bass engine.
The JBL 300.1
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/JBLBP3001 $139.00
Alpine MRD-M300
http://ikesound.com/product-product_id/1286 $149.00
As for car speaker wiring... typically use #16 gage as stock for speakers. If you add an amp to your HU to drive them, and go for 50 RMS x 4 or higher, larger gage wire is a good idea. A #14 wire is adequate here. But the stock wires will still work at 50 watts.
Finally most HU amps are actually between 18-27 watts RMS x 4. Alpine makes a nice HU that nets 27 watts RMS x 4. With this size amp & sub, that is adequate if your speakers are aftermarket. However, they will sound better with higher amp power.
You can try it w/o amps to interior speakers. But if you don't get enough SPL, then adding a good 4 channel will really make your cabin come alive. Just make sure your power wire kit is #4 gage. This will handle 2 amps that pull up to ~100A.
Swez
aposynthesi on 04/8/2004 00:18:39
I found that HypAudio.com is actually $15 less, since they supply free shipping... but I don't know if they're trustworthy. Yahoo says they are.
My head unit is the JVC HC9750(?), which has a MOSFET 200W amp in it, and it's 25x4... and yeah, I was thinking about getting an amp for the four speakers also, but not right now... money is tight.
I really commend you swez and uochronos, moreso you... swez though... as you've replied to nearly every post on this forum, helping everyone out tremendously. Thanks... both of you.
swez on 04/8/2004 08:09:06
Thank you for the kuddos. Try my best to keep our readers well supplied with "news they can use". Chronos is learning his chops and I can see him graduating to Gold status this year. He is doing a fine job now.
The learning curve is high on this technology initially. But in time, much of the work is repeated as new folks come to the site. That's why we use a team approach here. Some are gereralists while others are specialists in a given area. Blending these skills and personalities to a workable solution, has been a lot of fun. For the most part, a very tight group of very bright people here in the site.
Many are in school now, so they visit as they can.
Swez
PS Welcome to CK & tell your friends.... thanks to our Web host Walter Hargrave, there is a clear voice of reason presented on the Web.
aposynthesi on 06/2/2004 01:09:31
Ok... I got the speakers installed. How much better would they sound with the Alpine MRV-F340 amp?
swez on 06/2/2004 12:59:26
Yep, that amp will help your mid/highs well. You can expect ~+3 dB per speaker with this amp ober the HU amps in your JVC.
The amount of power you want, will be determined by the power handling ability (RMS power please) of your speakers. If the speakers are rated at 30-50 RMS each, this amp is a winner. If the speakers are closer to 75 watts RMS/each, you can go a bit larger on the amp if more SPL is desired in the mids/highs.
You may have to limit the lows going to the 5x7" speakers. These are smaller, cannot take much bass power. Filter these with amps' HPF to say 150 Hz and up.
The 6x9's can do a better job at midbass frequencies. The HPF here, can be set closer to 80 Hz for good Midbass performance. The sub will do everything below ~80 Hz well.
Swez
aposynthesi on 06/12/2004 15:00:56
Would any of you like me to throw a page up of photos that I've been taking during my install, as well as difficulties that I had and things that I've learned by doing this for the first time? I caaaaan...
swez on 06/12/2004 21:32:32
Sure! That's what CK is all about... sharing knowledge.
SoundDomain.com has a lot of install pics and details listed. Get your pics together, add some commentary and let us know the URL when finished.
Swez
aposynthesi on 06/13/2004 18:04:58
I loathe fiberglass.
swez on 06/14/2004 10:04:58
Amen to that one bro... gotta suit up and cover every inch of exposed skin and if you are doing fiberglass enclosures or fixtures, cover everything in are with plastic sheeting or garbage bags. Also, work in a well ventilated area when working with resins and hardeners.
Swez SMILE
aposynthesi on 06/14/2004 16:18:07
So uh... "mission fiberglass" was a failure. It got really frayed, so that means that if body filler went on top of frayed peices... chaos would unleash. Also, my carpet wasn't tight enough, so it's droopy in about 5 little sections.
I'll still post pictures and everything... this is only the beginning of my combat with physical labor.
swez on 06/15/2004 17:26:04
That's a good lesson to learn from. What do you think went wrong in the glassing job? Ummmm, failure need not be final ya know. Only if we quit or do not try again without some skilled hands to guide us the 2nd time around.
Even if you have to grind/sand it all off and try again, something good will be learned... YOU CAN DO THIS if you are determined and armed with the proper materials, process and persistance.
Hang in there,
Swez
PS There's always duct tape ya know... SMILE
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