Perhaps you guys can give me a bit of an assist here.
I am trying to future proof my car a bit and going overboard I understand but how does this sound price wise. This is for my 2003 Chevy Suburban.
My installer is installing 2 1000 CCA Stinger batteries. 1 in the engine compartment to replace the original, and 1 in the rear mounting spot next to the tires. They are to be split so that one powers the engine and accessories and one powers the stereo system.
A 25 Farad capacitor by Stinger is also being installed to ensure optimal power flow to the stereo. The wiring is all 1/0 gauge wire and I am sure will be top notch. Minor customizations will be done to ensure a clean look.
The cost for the is $1100. Does that seem reasonable for the components being installed? The labor portion is $500 but the guys are very detailed and do excellent work so I do not mind so much paying the premium there. I just hate getting beat up so much over the cost of the components.
My understanding though is that this electrical setup once a HO alternator is installed should allow for ~6250 watts of overall power to the system. Does that seem reasonable as well?
Replies (8)
ttocs on 04/5/2004 12:14:45
there should be a spot under the hood for the additional battery, we have done more then a few there. $1100 if they do great work is not horrible, but still pricey. By putting the battery upfront you should be able to save a considerable amount as you would not need the 20+ ft of 1/0 awg, or the labor to run it to the back until the amps are installed.
Raefin on 04/5/2004 14:04:24
Problem is the space under the hood is at a premium due to the supercharger that will be installed taking up much of the spare space.
The $1100 was for the parts alone. $250 per battery. $200 for the Wire, cable, and connects. $500 for the capacitor. And then another $500 for the labor portion of the install.
I looked on Sounddomain and saw the batteries for $200 a piece there. The capacitor I could not find online. I also have no clue how much wiring and other miscellaneous parts are necessary to complete the install so no way to complain about the $200 either.
The batteries are the SP1000
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/batteries_power2.asp
The capacitor is the Hybrid 25 Farad
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/capacitors.asp#hybrid
The cables are all 1/0 Gauge HPM wires from stinger. All the connects and fuse blocks and other items to get the distribution correct are also from stinger.
(I must admit that Stinger sure does charge a lot for their name)
swez on 04/5/2004 14:05:58
This is pretty over the top mods for an audio system, unless you plan to compete in DB Drags.
With that much battery reserve, the Cap is really not needed. The 2nd battery is a much more effective current buffer source than any cap can be.... period. Extra cost, few benefits.
Seems like you are planning a very robust system with electricals of this nature. Got a plan on amps you plan to use and other electrical toys that warrant such a large supply system? It seems like mutilple, high power amps are involved to require this much modification???
Swez
Raefin on 04/5/2004 14:15:56
Right now there is a JL 1000/1 and 450/4 amp in the car. After the rest of the electrical gets installed in the car there will be another 1000/1 and another 450/4 amp installed. Additionally, there will be 4 headrest televisions. The pioneer 7500 is also installed. A PS-2 is going in as is a navigation system. There will also be accent neon installed.
The exterior is going to have undercarriage neon, high intensity headlights x 4. I can't think of any other exterior mods that will be drawing current. The car is being built to compete in SQ shows not the DB drags.
swez on 04/5/2004 19:29:36
Sounds nice. This system will probably draw close to 300A whe you really push it hard. But since you are shooting for an SQ Rig.. I CLAP your efforts.
In lieu of that expensive cap, I would suggest using a pair of batteries for the amps as your current buffer storage. In parallel, you'll get 12 volts... but 2x the current (watts) IN RESERVE. If you have a tire well inside the truck, that might be a good option for installing them or a false floor compartment to contain them and wiring. The rest is up to you.
I hope you have a HO ALT and maybe a battery Isolator kit for the Aux. batteries in this plan. It will not tax your primary electricals too much to charge the starter battery... but there could be a large load of inrush current, when trying to keep the dual Aux. batteries up to snuff when you have been kicking it hard. In SQ designs, the goal is purity and balance of the system... not how much boom is created.
Swez
Raefin on 04/5/2004 19:38:54
As we have discussed before. The key to any system is deciding what you want prior to making any purchases. This makes everything else much easier. My ultimate design is going to be:
2 sets of JL XR650-Csi components, 1 in doors, 1 in kick panels.
4 extra tweeters in the front pillars.
1 set of JL 8"W0 midbass drivers in the door panels.
1 set of JL XR650-Cxi coaxials in the rear doors.
1 set of JL TR525-Cxi in the rear pillars near the trunk.
These are all to be powered by 2 JL Audio 450/4 amps.
The subwoofers are to be 2 JL 12"W7.
These will be powered with 2 JL Audio 100/1 amps.
The head unit is a Pioneer DVD7500.
The navigation system will be added to this.
A PS-2 is going to be installed.
4 Headrest monitors are to be installed.
Neon accents will be placed around the vehicle once the styling phase begins.
The car will also have High intensity headlights installed. The rear brake lights will be upgraded. Undercarriage neon will be installed. Larger rims and tires will be added. A supercharger will be installed. Also a nitrous kit will be installed.
I intend to spend quite a bit of money on this vehicle as I intend to keep it indefinitely. I wish I had the time to be able to do the install myself but I am quite busy. Additionally, when it comes to electrical setups I oftentimes prefer to leave it to the professionals anyways. The actual engine and car modifications I intend to do myself with the help of my friends. I have been to a few shops already to have the stereo installed and found that, while the shop I am dealing with now is definitely not cheap, they do the little things right and make sure the total vehicle is setup properly. I have had the car taken back to them many times because they requested to retweak the install after I drove with it for a while. So the labor I am not as worried about as the price of the components itself. Additionally, since I am unsure as to what exactly an install like this would take regarding the little things, such as capacitors and batteries and what not i figured I would come to the experts here as opposed to attempting to bluff my way through or be led blindly.
I do not necessarily know what to expect when it comes to car audio install shops but I do know they were the only ones to call me back and ask about the install and ask to fix anything I might have found wrong with it.
I guess I am hoping you all will help steer me correctly towards my goal. I guess for additional information I can tell you what I spent on the other pieces of the setup.
The 12W7 in a prowedge box was $950. The 1000/1 amp was $925. This install cost my $2350 overall with the wires and installation.
The second place installed the alarm system and it was $1000 for one of the high end clifford setups.
The third and final place installed 1 set of XR650-CSi, XR650-CXi, the TR525CXi, 1 VR tweeter set, 1 450/4 amplifier, the pioneer head unit, all in a custom underseat rack under the third row seat. This cost $4700 with the labor and wire and what not.
The head unit itself they charged $2500 for and I know that was very high since Sounddomain was only charging 2000 for it. But they did a very good job with the install including replacing the alarm that the second shop installed improperly which caused it to break and not work properly. They also cleaned up quite a bit of the problems with the first installs wires running under the carpet and causing problems with the way the panels fit. I love my car very much but I also hate getting ripped off. Perhaps you guys can help me feel better about what I am doing so far.
swez on 04/6/2004 09:00:42
Well, as you said, you don't have much time or knowledge to perform this level of install yourself. Shop prices are high on the install side as ttocs mentioned, but if they do quality work and follow ups... may be worth the extra fees.
As for gear... you can easily shop for the best prices and get the gear yourself. Then have the shop install it all as you get them. Many shops have a pretty hefty markup on what they sell as they have overhead costs, inventory, sales commissions and wages to pay. Can cut out part of their profits by obtaining the gear you want at the best prices you can find. Most shops are more than happy to install what you have already, as long as all is compatible.
If I were in your shoes, I'd shop the gear I want hard, buy as I can... then have things installed by a quality shop. Seems like you have found a shop that does good work... willing to accomodate you in every way possible... but you may be paying too much for the gear you buy from them.
NOTE: Many Sales/install shops work off a 100 - 300% markup (they buy it for $100.00, sell it for 200.00 or more) on gear they sell. Depends on the products, how much they buy at one time and basically... how much can we get away with charging a customer for what they sell. Pretty hefty numbers when you add up all the gear mentioned so far. I am surprized that you are not getting a bunch of freebies or reduced cost items with the amount of cash you have pumped out already???? (are you?)
Say more,
Swez
Raefin on 04/6/2004 09:37:58
Most all of the freebies they are giving me are exterior items. Like Free tinting and what not.
I havent taken them yet because I want the interior finished before I do anything to the exterior. Trying to give less warning to the thiefs that go bump in the night.
I am trying to future proof my car a bit and going overboard I understand but how does this sound price wise. This is for my 2003 Chevy Suburban.
My installer is installing 2 1000 CCA Stinger batteries. 1 in the engine compartment to replace the original, and 1 in the rear mounting spot next to the tires. They are to be split so that one powers the engine and accessories and one powers the stereo system.
A 25 Farad capacitor by Stinger is also being installed to ensure optimal power flow to the stereo. The wiring is all 1/0 gauge wire and I am sure will be top notch. Minor customizations will be done to ensure a clean look.
The cost for the is $1100. Does that seem reasonable for the components being installed? The labor portion is $500 but the guys are very detailed and do excellent work so I do not mind so much paying the premium there. I just hate getting beat up so much over the cost of the components.
My understanding though is that this electrical setup once a HO alternator is installed should allow for ~6250 watts of overall power to the system. Does that seem reasonable as well?
Replies (8)
ttocs on 04/5/2004 12:14:45
there should be a spot under the hood for the additional battery, we have done more then a few there. $1100 if they do great work is not horrible, but still pricey. By putting the battery upfront you should be able to save a considerable amount as you would not need the 20+ ft of 1/0 awg, or the labor to run it to the back until the amps are installed.
Raefin on 04/5/2004 14:04:24
Problem is the space under the hood is at a premium due to the supercharger that will be installed taking up much of the spare space.
The $1100 was for the parts alone. $250 per battery. $200 for the Wire, cable, and connects. $500 for the capacitor. And then another $500 for the labor portion of the install.
I looked on Sounddomain and saw the batteries for $200 a piece there. The capacitor I could not find online. I also have no clue how much wiring and other miscellaneous parts are necessary to complete the install so no way to complain about the $200 either.
The batteries are the SP1000
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/batteries_power2.asp
The capacitor is the Hybrid 25 Farad
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/capacitors.asp#hybrid
The cables are all 1/0 Gauge HPM wires from stinger. All the connects and fuse blocks and other items to get the distribution correct are also from stinger.
(I must admit that Stinger sure does charge a lot for their name)
swez on 04/5/2004 14:05:58
This is pretty over the top mods for an audio system, unless you plan to compete in DB Drags.
With that much battery reserve, the Cap is really not needed. The 2nd battery is a much more effective current buffer source than any cap can be.... period. Extra cost, few benefits.
Seems like you are planning a very robust system with electricals of this nature. Got a plan on amps you plan to use and other electrical toys that warrant such a large supply system? It seems like mutilple, high power amps are involved to require this much modification???
Swez
Raefin on 04/5/2004 14:15:56
Right now there is a JL 1000/1 and 450/4 amp in the car. After the rest of the electrical gets installed in the car there will be another 1000/1 and another 450/4 amp installed. Additionally, there will be 4 headrest televisions. The pioneer 7500 is also installed. A PS-2 is going in as is a navigation system. There will also be accent neon installed.
The exterior is going to have undercarriage neon, high intensity headlights x 4. I can't think of any other exterior mods that will be drawing current. The car is being built to compete in SQ shows not the DB drags.
swez on 04/5/2004 19:29:36
Sounds nice. This system will probably draw close to 300A whe you really push it hard. But since you are shooting for an SQ Rig.. I CLAP your efforts.
In lieu of that expensive cap, I would suggest using a pair of batteries for the amps as your current buffer storage. In parallel, you'll get 12 volts... but 2x the current (watts) IN RESERVE. If you have a tire well inside the truck, that might be a good option for installing them or a false floor compartment to contain them and wiring. The rest is up to you.
I hope you have a HO ALT and maybe a battery Isolator kit for the Aux. batteries in this plan. It will not tax your primary electricals too much to charge the starter battery... but there could be a large load of inrush current, when trying to keep the dual Aux. batteries up to snuff when you have been kicking it hard. In SQ designs, the goal is purity and balance of the system... not how much boom is created.
Swez
Raefin on 04/5/2004 19:38:54
As we have discussed before. The key to any system is deciding what you want prior to making any purchases. This makes everything else much easier. My ultimate design is going to be:
2 sets of JL XR650-Csi components, 1 in doors, 1 in kick panels.
4 extra tweeters in the front pillars.
1 set of JL 8"W0 midbass drivers in the door panels.
1 set of JL XR650-Cxi coaxials in the rear doors.
1 set of JL TR525-Cxi in the rear pillars near the trunk.
These are all to be powered by 2 JL Audio 450/4 amps.
The subwoofers are to be 2 JL 12"W7.
These will be powered with 2 JL Audio 100/1 amps.
The head unit is a Pioneer DVD7500.
The navigation system will be added to this.
A PS-2 is going to be installed.
4 Headrest monitors are to be installed.
Neon accents will be placed around the vehicle once the styling phase begins.
The car will also have High intensity headlights installed. The rear brake lights will be upgraded. Undercarriage neon will be installed. Larger rims and tires will be added. A supercharger will be installed. Also a nitrous kit will be installed.
I intend to spend quite a bit of money on this vehicle as I intend to keep it indefinitely. I wish I had the time to be able to do the install myself but I am quite busy. Additionally, when it comes to electrical setups I oftentimes prefer to leave it to the professionals anyways. The actual engine and car modifications I intend to do myself with the help of my friends. I have been to a few shops already to have the stereo installed and found that, while the shop I am dealing with now is definitely not cheap, they do the little things right and make sure the total vehicle is setup properly. I have had the car taken back to them many times because they requested to retweak the install after I drove with it for a while. So the labor I am not as worried about as the price of the components itself. Additionally, since I am unsure as to what exactly an install like this would take regarding the little things, such as capacitors and batteries and what not i figured I would come to the experts here as opposed to attempting to bluff my way through or be led blindly.
I do not necessarily know what to expect when it comes to car audio install shops but I do know they were the only ones to call me back and ask about the install and ask to fix anything I might have found wrong with it.
I guess I am hoping you all will help steer me correctly towards my goal. I guess for additional information I can tell you what I spent on the other pieces of the setup.
The 12W7 in a prowedge box was $950. The 1000/1 amp was $925. This install cost my $2350 overall with the wires and installation.
The second place installed the alarm system and it was $1000 for one of the high end clifford setups.
The third and final place installed 1 set of XR650-CSi, XR650-CXi, the TR525CXi, 1 VR tweeter set, 1 450/4 amplifier, the pioneer head unit, all in a custom underseat rack under the third row seat. This cost $4700 with the labor and wire and what not.
The head unit itself they charged $2500 for and I know that was very high since Sounddomain was only charging 2000 for it. But they did a very good job with the install including replacing the alarm that the second shop installed improperly which caused it to break and not work properly. They also cleaned up quite a bit of the problems with the first installs wires running under the carpet and causing problems with the way the panels fit. I love my car very much but I also hate getting ripped off. Perhaps you guys can help me feel better about what I am doing so far.
swez on 04/6/2004 09:00:42
Well, as you said, you don't have much time or knowledge to perform this level of install yourself. Shop prices are high on the install side as ttocs mentioned, but if they do quality work and follow ups... may be worth the extra fees.
As for gear... you can easily shop for the best prices and get the gear yourself. Then have the shop install it all as you get them. Many shops have a pretty hefty markup on what they sell as they have overhead costs, inventory, sales commissions and wages to pay. Can cut out part of their profits by obtaining the gear you want at the best prices you can find. Most shops are more than happy to install what you have already, as long as all is compatible.
If I were in your shoes, I'd shop the gear I want hard, buy as I can... then have things installed by a quality shop. Seems like you have found a shop that does good work... willing to accomodate you in every way possible... but you may be paying too much for the gear you buy from them.
NOTE: Many Sales/install shops work off a 100 - 300% markup (they buy it for $100.00, sell it for 200.00 or more) on gear they sell. Depends on the products, how much they buy at one time and basically... how much can we get away with charging a customer for what they sell. Pretty hefty numbers when you add up all the gear mentioned so far. I am surprized that you are not getting a bunch of freebies or reduced cost items with the amount of cash you have pumped out already???? (are you?)
Say more,
Swez
Raefin on 04/6/2004 09:37:58
Most all of the freebies they are giving me are exterior items. Like Free tinting and what not.
I havent taken them yet because I want the interior finished before I do anything to the exterior. Trying to give less warning to the thiefs that go bump in the night.
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