ok a while back i was going to order some adire audio shivas and a JBL 600.1....but couldnt due to some bills.....and now im wondering if i should still get those.i have a box right now that is for 2 12's and the demensions are 6" deep for the top, 9" deep for the bottom, 59" wide, and 16" tall.so im wondering if i should still go with the shiva or should i look at something else....as for the amp it all depends on the subs.thanks for the helpbrbralex
Replies (25)
swez on 04/4/2004 11:31:03
Well Alex.... we went through all the calculations on that box before and found the Shiva's to be a good fit. But if you want to reduce your sub costs, still use that amp... can use a cheaper sub like the Infinity Reference series.
They handle 300 RMS per sub, use the same basic sealed enclosure size you have and much cheaper than Shiva's. If you shop around, I have seen them on some web sites for less than $70.00 each.
Infinity Reference 1230w
12" Component Subwoofer, 4 ohm SVC
Key Features:
polypropylene cone
deep-draw I-beam basket
70-ounce magnet structure
recommended power range 50-300 watts RMS
peak power handling 1,200 watts
frequency response 23-400 Hz
sensitivity 90 dB
top mount depth: 6-1/4"
sealed box volume: 1.25 cu. ft.
ported box volume: 2.00 cu. ft.
1-year warranty
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?icatid=369&stk_code=inf1230w&svbname=293 ($59.99 ea.)
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/4/2004 15:42:33
I have been talking to Brian at powered4sound.com and they have a box loaded with 4 crystal comp 8's for $1200.....if its anything like the 6 1/2's and what the guys say on the videos im wondering if i should try it out....anyone heard about them?
swez on 04/4/2004 19:47:10
Dunno how 4 x 6.5" would sound on low end extensions, but Crystal does make excellent gear.
Have a look at this package:
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=TX12Denclosed
This is indeed a rare find and may fit your vehicle and sonic needs well. The PG name stands for quailty and performance. The price is generally much higher than what I see here.
From what I gather here, this comes in a 4+4 DVC x 2 package. It is wired @ 4 ohms but can easily be rewired to a 1 ohm load. The power rating per sub is 350 RMS each. So, a JBL 600.1 will power them just fine @ 1 ohm.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/5/2004 00:35:37
this is what brian said when i asked him about 2 shivas compaired to the 4 8's
"As for 2 shivas, I almost fell over laughing when I read that. We are talking about a whole different world here. You could put 4 shivas and never touch the response of this box. The bottom line is there is no possible way to get more bass response into a single cab truck.....until we come up with something better. Not with 2 10's, not with 2 12's and nothing bigger that might come close will fit. These 8's rule. Period."
swez on 04/5/2004 01:13:10
He might be right... I have no real hands on experience with Crystal subs... but they are pretty pricey though.
Just depends on what you want to fork out.
Swez
uochronos on 04/5/2004 15:04:15
if we are looking intio using 8" subs here elemental designs just built a "monster" as they call it iof an 8. its limited supply only and they arent listed on the site but if you call them they well terll you all the info. this sub is amazing in vented enclosure it takes from 400-1000watts rms and has a one way excursion of 22mm and its supposed to live up to the sq of the a series.... i want to pick on of these up almost before they are gone: they are 275$ each but i can imagine needing more then 2.
swez on 04/6/2004 20:34:10
Honestly, we agree Crystal makes a very competent set of speakers, woofers and such. I have no doubt in that.
But, has Brian ever heard a pair of Shiva's and say 600 watts RMS powering them? If yes, he know's they are no slouch. If he has not heard them before... well, he might be impressed in a good setup.
In most shops.... many take the approach that if we don't sell em... you don't want em. Not all bad if a high end audio "snob" shop... but for chain retail stores.... ya get what ya pay for.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/6/2004 20:44:22
yea they sell shivas thats why i asked him....what would be a good amp that puts out 1500-2000 watts? thats what he reccommended that i got was a amp around that
zInal3 on 04/7/2004 10:36:48
sorry to jump into this but since u guys r discussing about choices of subs, i have a simple question to ask, have u guys ever heard how nakamichi 12" subs sounds like ? and is it worth the money by its performance ? thanks SMILE
swez on 04/7/2004 10:52:10
Nak makes some of the best electronics gear in the world... their HU's & amps are top notch and I would have no reason to expect anything less of their subs.
I have not heard them, so am only giving you a general overview opinion on the brand. Like most Nak gear, am sure they are not cheap either... but one thing you will find... not too many have Nak gear as the price is a bit out of reach for the average listener.
Swez
zInal3 on 04/7/2004 12:11:14
Thanks for the comment swez , really appreciate it. I got a nice deal from a shop about those Nak subs, cleared my doubts and i'm gone now .
Goodluck with your install A.D.D
A.D.D. on 04/7/2004 22:57:09
not about subs...but which would be a better cd player brand alpine, pioneer, or rockford fosgate....local store said the RFs were nice but dont really trust them so want to see what u guys think
A.D.D. on 04/7/2004 23:06:00
also i think i have decided to go with the shivas and the JBL 600.1 amp or would a bigger amp be better? want to get these to sound as good as they can...and maybe later on try out the 8'sbrbrbralso how do i find the volume of my box? thats the cu. ft. right?br
zInal3 on 04/8/2004 03:07:42
I never heard comments and reviews about Rockford headunits but their Subs and Amps are Great.
I will go for Alpine as my HeadUnit anyday for its clarity and performance .
swez on 04/8/2004 07:39:11
Alpine or Pioneer both make very good CD components. Not sure what RF has going.
You can easily calulate internal volume of an enclosure by measuring external dimensions of the enclosure and using the following calculator from RF Tech:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/boxcalculator.asp
If you have a wedge style enclosure, the width difference is calulated like this:
Top width = 6.5"
Bottom width = 10.0
Calculation: 6.5 + 10.0 = 16.5/2 = 8.25" net width
If there is a divider panel in the center of the box, have to subtract the cubic inches of the panel to get an accurate internal volume number.
The JBL 600.1 is more than adequate power for a pair of Shivas. Yes, Shivas can take more power. But that will only net 1-3 dB of extra bass SPL. The trade off, is higher current draw with a larger amp.
Here's the facts:
Scenario 1: JBL 600.1 and 2 Shivas
Amp cost: $200
Sub costs: 250
Current draw: ~50A
Estimated SPL: low 140's dB
Senario 2: JBL 1200.1
Amp cost: $300
Sub costs: 250
Current draw: ~ 100A
Estimated SPL: low 140's dB + 3 dB
Unless you have a larger power supply (ALT/BAT) to feed a 1200.1 adequately, the added costs to upgrade your power supply may not be worth the cost to gain +3dB.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 08:26:59
2.895 cubic feet is what i got
swez on 04/8/2004 13:41:29
Did you calculate the divider board between the subs in this number?
If not, have to measure that board in inches (H,W & D) and deduct that from total internal cf noted. To convert cubic inches to cubic foot, use this formula:
H x W x D (d1+d2)/2 = CI then use:
CI/1728 = cf of that board.... subtract that from 2.895
Finally, that 2.895 cf internally will work well with your Shivas in a sealed box. Adding about 20 oz of poly fill per sub, is recommended for that size enclosure. That is an extrapolated number on poly fill.
Here is a .pdf doc that shows common enclosure perameters recommend for Shivas:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/ShivaTechSummary.PDF
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 16:06:09
so is the jbl 600.1 best for the subs? for the money?
swez on 04/8/2004 19:49:43
Would I not tell you something is better if I knew of such a thing?
The JBL Powervalve series is the best bang for the buck amp I know of on the market right now. Some also like Avionixx amps. But I have no experience with them to date. They are a bit cheaper than the JBL series, but I have no personal experience with that amp line... so anything I would offer is hearsay at best.
Swez
PS Stop procrastinating D... you're missing all the fun. GRIN
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 23:37:15
ok ok im gonna order them this time....been waiting to long....but i now need a cd player since i dont have one.....god i hate who ever stole my cd player
swez on 04/9/2004 10:02:11
"god i hate who ever stole my cd player" Sounds like some kind of prayer to me... GRIN
God hates "what" the thief in the night did to you... but not the thief.
I too hate theft.. as I lost about $250,000.00 a few years back. It was all legal... but still theft, none the less. Dang lawyers, Judge and a greedy x-wife. (sigh....) But I have come to terms with it all and no longer hate.... just numb from the whole thing.
You think you are mad ??? GRIN
Swez
uochronos on 04/9/2004 14:29:36
i too have heard that "prayer" from friends all too many times. honetly it has alot to do with attitude i have a bigger boomier system then almost all my friends worth a hell of alot more then any of there but i have never had any of it stolen because of 3 big things.
1 i dont drive around with the windows down and the system cranked to the max (especialy ar9ound my home) one it pisses off your neighbors and second it tells every thief in town this guy has some **** to steal.
2 i dont tell every "friend" that i just bought a 1000$ set of speakers and amps. all too many times i have seen so called "friends" turn out to be the ones that jacked the stuff.
3 i always mount the stuff in places where its not real showy after all you need to hear the speakers great not see them.also i remove the face plate like religion.
i have been at the mall and seen the crappy stock stereos literalyt stolen out the the cars next to me and all my gears left alone because they looked in couldnt see anything and saw that my HU had no face so why bother.... i also have stickers on all my windows that say somehting like "warning this vehicle is equiped with telectronic devices that make it trackable" ford puts this on almost all there vehicles alls it means from what i can tell is that they can hook up to it and tell what vehicle it is even if the VINs are gone. it doesnt mean ford has a secret set of satalites tracking my car but criminals are dumb enough to think that 80% of the time.
tough luck swez good lesson to the story though hate doesnt get you anywhere... better to take it as a lesson and just become stronger from it.
swez on 04/9/2004 21:24:19
All good points there Chronos...
Have learned there is a choice in everyday decisions. We choose our path toward bitterness or betterness each day. I figure if it did not kill me.... I can learn something positive from it and grow for that experience.
Swez
saintanddolphin on 04/9/2004 22:24:49
you are a better man than i....250,000!!!!!!..DAMN!!
swez on 04/9/2004 23:03:31
It's only money... and besides, that provided a good jump start for my children to live in the same house they grew up in, had a lifestyle similar to when I was there and gave my ex some breathing room to find a decent job and go it alone.
Honestly, it put me in the poor house for a long time to come. But I have learned there is more to happiness than money, stuff and living the "good life" I though we once had.
I figured this much out so far:
1. It was not such a good life after all... (too much strife & pressure)
2. I grew tired of being "the wallet" for everybody's whims
3. "True friends" don't care what status symbols we have or lack
4. There is more to life than working for just money (we gotta love what we do, regardless of the pay scales)
In a court of law (divorce court) if you are poor, there's not much to take,. If one is weathy, the lawyers will do their best to suck as much off you as they can get... but everbody gets something. If one is somewhere in between, it's a game of attrition and the one who has the most financial resources, pays the tab.
Learn from my words and experience guys. Know your friends and keep them close at hand as they will give you strength in times of trouble. Know your enemies even better... as they will usually be the source of your troubles. Straight up stuff here dudes!
Swez
PS Helping others, is the fastest way to turn our focus off our own crap and enjoy the new people that come into the game to play. In a big way, that's why I am here on this forum today. I desire to give to others rather than lament (pity parties) over things that I cannot change. It's a choice and I give it willingly so that others may benefit in some small way. Enjoy the gifts and share them with others liberally. SMILE (am sure the Golds all feel the same way about their efforts here)
Replies (25)
swez on 04/4/2004 11:31:03
Well Alex.... we went through all the calculations on that box before and found the Shiva's to be a good fit. But if you want to reduce your sub costs, still use that amp... can use a cheaper sub like the Infinity Reference series.
They handle 300 RMS per sub, use the same basic sealed enclosure size you have and much cheaper than Shiva's. If you shop around, I have seen them on some web sites for less than $70.00 each.
Infinity Reference 1230w
12" Component Subwoofer, 4 ohm SVC
Key Features:
polypropylene cone
deep-draw I-beam basket
70-ounce magnet structure
recommended power range 50-300 watts RMS
peak power handling 1,200 watts
frequency response 23-400 Hz
sensitivity 90 dB
top mount depth: 6-1/4"
sealed box volume: 1.25 cu. ft.
ported box volume: 2.00 cu. ft.
1-year warranty
http://www.etronics.com/product.asp?icatid=369&stk_code=inf1230w&svbname=293 ($59.99 ea.)
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/4/2004 15:42:33
I have been talking to Brian at powered4sound.com and they have a box loaded with 4 crystal comp 8's for $1200.....if its anything like the 6 1/2's and what the guys say on the videos im wondering if i should try it out....anyone heard about them?
swez on 04/4/2004 19:47:10
Dunno how 4 x 6.5" would sound on low end extensions, but Crystal does make excellent gear.
Have a look at this package:
http://www.infinitecaraudio.com/cgi-bin/icastore.cgi?user_action=detail&catalogno=TX12Denclosed
This is indeed a rare find and may fit your vehicle and sonic needs well. The PG name stands for quailty and performance. The price is generally much higher than what I see here.
From what I gather here, this comes in a 4+4 DVC x 2 package. It is wired @ 4 ohms but can easily be rewired to a 1 ohm load. The power rating per sub is 350 RMS each. So, a JBL 600.1 will power them just fine @ 1 ohm.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/5/2004 00:35:37
this is what brian said when i asked him about 2 shivas compaired to the 4 8's
"As for 2 shivas, I almost fell over laughing when I read that. We are talking about a whole different world here. You could put 4 shivas and never touch the response of this box. The bottom line is there is no possible way to get more bass response into a single cab truck.....until we come up with something better. Not with 2 10's, not with 2 12's and nothing bigger that might come close will fit. These 8's rule. Period."
swez on 04/5/2004 01:13:10
He might be right... I have no real hands on experience with Crystal subs... but they are pretty pricey though.
Just depends on what you want to fork out.
Swez
uochronos on 04/5/2004 15:04:15
if we are looking intio using 8" subs here elemental designs just built a "monster" as they call it iof an 8. its limited supply only and they arent listed on the site but if you call them they well terll you all the info. this sub is amazing in vented enclosure it takes from 400-1000watts rms and has a one way excursion of 22mm and its supposed to live up to the sq of the a series.... i want to pick on of these up almost before they are gone: they are 275$ each but i can imagine needing more then 2.
swez on 04/6/2004 20:34:10
Honestly, we agree Crystal makes a very competent set of speakers, woofers and such. I have no doubt in that.
But, has Brian ever heard a pair of Shiva's and say 600 watts RMS powering them? If yes, he know's they are no slouch. If he has not heard them before... well, he might be impressed in a good setup.
In most shops.... many take the approach that if we don't sell em... you don't want em. Not all bad if a high end audio "snob" shop... but for chain retail stores.... ya get what ya pay for.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/6/2004 20:44:22
yea they sell shivas thats why i asked him....what would be a good amp that puts out 1500-2000 watts? thats what he reccommended that i got was a amp around that
zInal3 on 04/7/2004 10:36:48
sorry to jump into this but since u guys r discussing about choices of subs, i have a simple question to ask, have u guys ever heard how nakamichi 12" subs sounds like ? and is it worth the money by its performance ? thanks SMILE
swez on 04/7/2004 10:52:10
Nak makes some of the best electronics gear in the world... their HU's & amps are top notch and I would have no reason to expect anything less of their subs.
I have not heard them, so am only giving you a general overview opinion on the brand. Like most Nak gear, am sure they are not cheap either... but one thing you will find... not too many have Nak gear as the price is a bit out of reach for the average listener.
Swez
zInal3 on 04/7/2004 12:11:14
Thanks for the comment swez , really appreciate it. I got a nice deal from a shop about those Nak subs, cleared my doubts and i'm gone now .
Goodluck with your install A.D.D
A.D.D. on 04/7/2004 22:57:09
not about subs...but which would be a better cd player brand alpine, pioneer, or rockford fosgate....local store said the RFs were nice but dont really trust them so want to see what u guys think
A.D.D. on 04/7/2004 23:06:00
also i think i have decided to go with the shivas and the JBL 600.1 amp or would a bigger amp be better? want to get these to sound as good as they can...and maybe later on try out the 8'sbrbrbralso how do i find the volume of my box? thats the cu. ft. right?br
zInal3 on 04/8/2004 03:07:42
I never heard comments and reviews about Rockford headunits but their Subs and Amps are Great.
I will go for Alpine as my HeadUnit anyday for its clarity and performance .
swez on 04/8/2004 07:39:11
Alpine or Pioneer both make very good CD components. Not sure what RF has going.
You can easily calulate internal volume of an enclosure by measuring external dimensions of the enclosure and using the following calculator from RF Tech:
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/boxcalculator.asp
If you have a wedge style enclosure, the width difference is calulated like this:
Top width = 6.5"
Bottom width = 10.0
Calculation: 6.5 + 10.0 = 16.5/2 = 8.25" net width
If there is a divider panel in the center of the box, have to subtract the cubic inches of the panel to get an accurate internal volume number.
The JBL 600.1 is more than adequate power for a pair of Shivas. Yes, Shivas can take more power. But that will only net 1-3 dB of extra bass SPL. The trade off, is higher current draw with a larger amp.
Here's the facts:
Scenario 1: JBL 600.1 and 2 Shivas
Amp cost: $200
Sub costs: 250
Current draw: ~50A
Estimated SPL: low 140's dB
Senario 2: JBL 1200.1
Amp cost: $300
Sub costs: 250
Current draw: ~ 100A
Estimated SPL: low 140's dB + 3 dB
Unless you have a larger power supply (ALT/BAT) to feed a 1200.1 adequately, the added costs to upgrade your power supply may not be worth the cost to gain +3dB.
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 08:26:59
2.895 cubic feet is what i got
swez on 04/8/2004 13:41:29
Did you calculate the divider board between the subs in this number?
If not, have to measure that board in inches (H,W & D) and deduct that from total internal cf noted. To convert cubic inches to cubic foot, use this formula:
H x W x D (d1+d2)/2 = CI then use:
CI/1728 = cf of that board.... subtract that from 2.895
Finally, that 2.895 cf internally will work well with your Shivas in a sealed box. Adding about 20 oz of poly fill per sub, is recommended for that size enclosure. That is an extrapolated number on poly fill.
Here is a .pdf doc that shows common enclosure perameters recommend for Shivas:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/ShivaTechSummary.PDF
Swez
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 16:06:09
so is the jbl 600.1 best for the subs? for the money?
swez on 04/8/2004 19:49:43
Would I not tell you something is better if I knew of such a thing?
The JBL Powervalve series is the best bang for the buck amp I know of on the market right now. Some also like Avionixx amps. But I have no experience with them to date. They are a bit cheaper than the JBL series, but I have no personal experience with that amp line... so anything I would offer is hearsay at best.
Swez
PS Stop procrastinating D... you're missing all the fun. GRIN
A.D.D. on 04/8/2004 23:37:15
ok ok im gonna order them this time....been waiting to long....but i now need a cd player since i dont have one.....god i hate who ever stole my cd player
swez on 04/9/2004 10:02:11
"god i hate who ever stole my cd player" Sounds like some kind of prayer to me... GRIN
God hates "what" the thief in the night did to you... but not the thief.
I too hate theft.. as I lost about $250,000.00 a few years back. It was all legal... but still theft, none the less. Dang lawyers, Judge and a greedy x-wife. (sigh....) But I have come to terms with it all and no longer hate.... just numb from the whole thing.
You think you are mad ??? GRIN
Swez
uochronos on 04/9/2004 14:29:36
i too have heard that "prayer" from friends all too many times. honetly it has alot to do with attitude i have a bigger boomier system then almost all my friends worth a hell of alot more then any of there but i have never had any of it stolen because of 3 big things.
1 i dont drive around with the windows down and the system cranked to the max (especialy ar9ound my home) one it pisses off your neighbors and second it tells every thief in town this guy has some **** to steal.
2 i dont tell every "friend" that i just bought a 1000$ set of speakers and amps. all too many times i have seen so called "friends" turn out to be the ones that jacked the stuff.
3 i always mount the stuff in places where its not real showy after all you need to hear the speakers great not see them.also i remove the face plate like religion.
i have been at the mall and seen the crappy stock stereos literalyt stolen out the the cars next to me and all my gears left alone because they looked in couldnt see anything and saw that my HU had no face so why bother.... i also have stickers on all my windows that say somehting like "warning this vehicle is equiped with telectronic devices that make it trackable" ford puts this on almost all there vehicles alls it means from what i can tell is that they can hook up to it and tell what vehicle it is even if the VINs are gone. it doesnt mean ford has a secret set of satalites tracking my car but criminals are dumb enough to think that 80% of the time.
tough luck swez good lesson to the story though hate doesnt get you anywhere... better to take it as a lesson and just become stronger from it.
swez on 04/9/2004 21:24:19
All good points there Chronos...
Have learned there is a choice in everyday decisions. We choose our path toward bitterness or betterness each day. I figure if it did not kill me.... I can learn something positive from it and grow for that experience.
Swez
saintanddolphin on 04/9/2004 22:24:49
you are a better man than i....250,000!!!!!!..DAMN!!
swez on 04/9/2004 23:03:31
It's only money... and besides, that provided a good jump start for my children to live in the same house they grew up in, had a lifestyle similar to when I was there and gave my ex some breathing room to find a decent job and go it alone.
Honestly, it put me in the poor house for a long time to come. But I have learned there is more to happiness than money, stuff and living the "good life" I though we once had.
I figured this much out so far:
1. It was not such a good life after all... (too much strife & pressure)
2. I grew tired of being "the wallet" for everybody's whims
3. "True friends" don't care what status symbols we have or lack
4. There is more to life than working for just money (we gotta love what we do, regardless of the pay scales)
In a court of law (divorce court) if you are poor, there's not much to take,. If one is weathy, the lawyers will do their best to suck as much off you as they can get... but everbody gets something. If one is somewhere in between, it's a game of attrition and the one who has the most financial resources, pays the tab.
Learn from my words and experience guys. Know your friends and keep them close at hand as they will give you strength in times of trouble. Know your enemies even better... as they will usually be the source of your troubles. Straight up stuff here dudes!
Swez
PS Helping others, is the fastest way to turn our focus off our own crap and enjoy the new people that come into the game to play. In a big way, that's why I am here on this forum today. I desire to give to others rather than lament (pity parties) over things that I cannot change. It's a choice and I give it willingly so that others may benefit in some small way. Enjoy the gifts and share them with others liberally. SMILE (am sure the Golds all feel the same way about their efforts here)
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