Do you guys think 600 watts Rms 300 from each sub is good enough to be heard down the street
Hear is my setup
Visonik Bandpass Box V122BP
Boss Audio Riot Amp R-1035
Pioneer Headunit DEH-P6600
Optima yellow top Batt
Thanks
Replies (5)
cplkittle on 03/18/2004 19:56:07
not quite, that is only half of what they are asking for. If you are referring to the boss amp, you are not going to get anywhere close to 600w from it. I would recommend a 1200w mono amp. I highly recommend the JBL bp1200.1 $200-$250 on ebay. Then you will be heard.
You have a good HU, Good battery, decent subs, but a low level amp. I'm not trying to put you down or dis your equiptment, but I have replaced alot of boss equiptment with better stuff. It just dosen't last that long.
swez on 03/20/2004 08:54:28
Agreed.. Boss is not up to par with the rest of your system quality wise.
These subs are 4 ohms SVC's. They are rated at 300 RMS per sub. The JBL BP600.1 is a very good match for this sub combo. A true 600 RMS + mono amp, 2 ohms stable and not very expensive either. Under $250.00 off Ebay and other car audio web sites.
This Boss amp is an older model amp, 2 channel Class A/B amp. The rated power of this amp is probably not 300 RMS/ch @ 4 ohms as Boss tends to hike up the voltage supply numbers to get a higher wattage output figure. Am trying to open the Riot series technical data now... very slow DL. wait... wait & wait some more... 20 mins now!
Ahhh fooey on it... here's the .pdf link for technical info on Riot series amps. Maybe one of you guys w/ a high speed cable or DSL can gather the details.
http://www.bossaudio.com/USERMANUAL/amps/Riot%202003%20manual-A.pdf
Swez
asplundher on 03/20/2004 09:23:21
Before we start bashing any brands, just remember that almost all brands have a lower line and a top line. The difference between brands is that some will outdo others on the same level. However, most people will settle for what they can get within "their" price range! Believe me, I have had my share, and still use some every now and then when the need calls. If you know the product's limitations and are satisfied with it, then no one elses opinions matters.
A good example: A fella know at work (who happens to make dang good money- $18/hr) owns a plethora of car audio brands he likes to play with. Infinity, Hifonics, Rockford, etc.... you name it. Well, lately he has been on this Boss kick and seems to like some of the products. I also was shocked, seeing that his tastes are usually higher but, who knows. Sometimes, I guess it pays to research and test than to be biased!
swez on 03/21/2004 11:45:41
True, some of the lower end amp brands do have some quality products in their line up. This is true for high end brands as well. They also have low budget models to meet tight budgets.
Am not bashing any brands per-se... just noting that some mfgs delibrately high or exclude key performance specs to hide their flaws. This is intended to confuse, or at the very least, not allow a spec concious buyer (Techies) from making a well informed choice.
Example:
A sub amp rated at 100 watts RMS, @ 12.5 volts into a 4 ohm load... has more real world output that a brand that rates a similar amp at 14.4 volts for 100 watts RMS.
The amp rated at 12.5 volts is often referred to as underrated power and will deliver more RMS watts than stated in the data sheet.
On the other hand, the amp rated at 14.4 volts imput, is said to be overrater and will likely deliver less power than stated on the data sheet.
As long as it is stated, we can make an accurate judgement on the real world performance of amp(s) in question. If the voltage supply number is not stated... we have no basis for evaluation or comparision.
Same issue regarding RMS vs PEAK power rating on subs, amps or speakers. If we use RMS values to compare each device. Easy to determine what we really have here. If PEAK power is used... how much will a device take when throwing peak wattage at it? An hour, all day long or 10 minutes before failure? Most makers make no distinctions on this. We are left to trial and error and may destroy our gear as a result.
Finally, on speakers.... many mfgs rate driver efficiency in several ways. Let's assume a few fixed points of reference.
4 ohm VC, 1 watt input, no enclosure, no cabin gain
1. 1 watt @ 1 meter = SPL# in a anechoic chamber (best way, is sweep frequency ploting curves) No enclosure or cabin gain effects are added to increase Eff #. This is the most honest way to obtain speaker efficiency numbers.
2. Some use a common 2.83 volts @ 1 meter. This nets higher efficiency numbers. (+3dB more SPL eff.)
a. P=E2/R or P = 2.83x2.83/4 = 2.002 watts input power
b. E=SQR(P*R) or E = srR (1x40) E= 2.0 volts
c. P=E2/R so P = 2.0x2.0/4 = 1 watt
Summary:
P (watts) = E x E/R where 2 x 2/4 = 1 watt = [SPL Ref #]
(2.0 volts into a 4 ohm load)
P (watts) = E x E/R where 2.83 x 2.83/4 = 2 watts [SPL Ref + 3dB]
(2.83 volts into a 4 ohm load) Since we doubled the watts input,
we get a +3 dB gain increase.
2. Some mfgs really stretch this Eff # number by using 2.83 volts input + a gain factor in enclosure and in car. These numbers are the highest Eff #' s as cabin gain can be substancial in some vehicles (12-20 Db of additional SPL. But this measurement technique is not often mentioned in the Eff SPL specs...
See what I mean? Lots of ways to spec a product. Knowing what process was used, makes a big difference in what we actually get out of a sub or speaker.
==================================================
OHM'S LAW:
BASE FORMULAS P=I*E E=I*R
TO FIND VOLTAGE E=P/I E=I*R E=SQR(P*R)
TO FIND CURRENT I=P/E I=E/R I=SQR(P/R)
TO FIND POWER P=I*E P=E2/R P=I2*R
TO FIND RESISTANCE R=E2/P R=E/I R=P/I2
Hope someone learned something on this one...
Swez COFFEE
cplkittle on 03/21/2004 13:36:57
Also, all of your high end amplifiers now are displaying the RMS, not the peak power. (Eclipse DA7122 [1000.1] ; Diamond D5 1200.1 ; JL 1000/1 ; Kicker KX1200.1) These are all RMS ratings. Yes they are expensive, but you get what you pay for ...most of the time.
Hear is my setup
Visonik Bandpass Box V122BP
Boss Audio Riot Amp R-1035
Pioneer Headunit DEH-P6600
Optima yellow top Batt
Thanks
Replies (5)
cplkittle on 03/18/2004 19:56:07
not quite, that is only half of what they are asking for. If you are referring to the boss amp, you are not going to get anywhere close to 600w from it. I would recommend a 1200w mono amp. I highly recommend the JBL bp1200.1 $200-$250 on ebay. Then you will be heard.
You have a good HU, Good battery, decent subs, but a low level amp. I'm not trying to put you down or dis your equiptment, but I have replaced alot of boss equiptment with better stuff. It just dosen't last that long.
swez on 03/20/2004 08:54:28
Agreed.. Boss is not up to par with the rest of your system quality wise.
These subs are 4 ohms SVC's. They are rated at 300 RMS per sub. The JBL BP600.1 is a very good match for this sub combo. A true 600 RMS + mono amp, 2 ohms stable and not very expensive either. Under $250.00 off Ebay and other car audio web sites.
This Boss amp is an older model amp, 2 channel Class A/B amp. The rated power of this amp is probably not 300 RMS/ch @ 4 ohms as Boss tends to hike up the voltage supply numbers to get a higher wattage output figure. Am trying to open the Riot series technical data now... very slow DL. wait... wait & wait some more... 20 mins now!
Ahhh fooey on it... here's the .pdf link for technical info on Riot series amps. Maybe one of you guys w/ a high speed cable or DSL can gather the details.
http://www.bossaudio.com/USERMANUAL/amps/Riot%202003%20manual-A.pdf
Swez
asplundher on 03/20/2004 09:23:21
Before we start bashing any brands, just remember that almost all brands have a lower line and a top line. The difference between brands is that some will outdo others on the same level. However, most people will settle for what they can get within "their" price range! Believe me, I have had my share, and still use some every now and then when the need calls. If you know the product's limitations and are satisfied with it, then no one elses opinions matters.
A good example: A fella know at work (who happens to make dang good money- $18/hr) owns a plethora of car audio brands he likes to play with. Infinity, Hifonics, Rockford, etc.... you name it. Well, lately he has been on this Boss kick and seems to like some of the products. I also was shocked, seeing that his tastes are usually higher but, who knows. Sometimes, I guess it pays to research and test than to be biased!
swez on 03/21/2004 11:45:41
True, some of the lower end amp brands do have some quality products in their line up. This is true for high end brands as well. They also have low budget models to meet tight budgets.
Am not bashing any brands per-se... just noting that some mfgs delibrately high or exclude key performance specs to hide their flaws. This is intended to confuse, or at the very least, not allow a spec concious buyer (Techies) from making a well informed choice.
Example:
A sub amp rated at 100 watts RMS, @ 12.5 volts into a 4 ohm load... has more real world output that a brand that rates a similar amp at 14.4 volts for 100 watts RMS.
The amp rated at 12.5 volts is often referred to as underrated power and will deliver more RMS watts than stated in the data sheet.
On the other hand, the amp rated at 14.4 volts imput, is said to be overrater and will likely deliver less power than stated on the data sheet.
As long as it is stated, we can make an accurate judgement on the real world performance of amp(s) in question. If the voltage supply number is not stated... we have no basis for evaluation or comparision.
Same issue regarding RMS vs PEAK power rating on subs, amps or speakers. If we use RMS values to compare each device. Easy to determine what we really have here. If PEAK power is used... how much will a device take when throwing peak wattage at it? An hour, all day long or 10 minutes before failure? Most makers make no distinctions on this. We are left to trial and error and may destroy our gear as a result.
Finally, on speakers.... many mfgs rate driver efficiency in several ways. Let's assume a few fixed points of reference.
4 ohm VC, 1 watt input, no enclosure, no cabin gain
1. 1 watt @ 1 meter = SPL# in a anechoic chamber (best way, is sweep frequency ploting curves) No enclosure or cabin gain effects are added to increase Eff #. This is the most honest way to obtain speaker efficiency numbers.
2. Some use a common 2.83 volts @ 1 meter. This nets higher efficiency numbers. (+3dB more SPL eff.)
a. P=E2/R or P = 2.83x2.83/4 = 2.002 watts input power
b. E=SQR(P*R) or E = srR (1x40) E= 2.0 volts
c. P=E2/R so P = 2.0x2.0/4 = 1 watt
Summary:
P (watts) = E x E/R where 2 x 2/4 = 1 watt = [SPL Ref #]
(2.0 volts into a 4 ohm load)
P (watts) = E x E/R where 2.83 x 2.83/4 = 2 watts [SPL Ref + 3dB]
(2.83 volts into a 4 ohm load) Since we doubled the watts input,
we get a +3 dB gain increase.
2. Some mfgs really stretch this Eff # number by using 2.83 volts input + a gain factor in enclosure and in car. These numbers are the highest Eff #' s as cabin gain can be substancial in some vehicles (12-20 Db of additional SPL. But this measurement technique is not often mentioned in the Eff SPL specs...
See what I mean? Lots of ways to spec a product. Knowing what process was used, makes a big difference in what we actually get out of a sub or speaker.
==================================================
OHM'S LAW:
BASE FORMULAS P=I*E E=I*R
TO FIND VOLTAGE E=P/I E=I*R E=SQR(P*R)
TO FIND CURRENT I=P/E I=E/R I=SQR(P/R)
TO FIND POWER P=I*E P=E2/R P=I2*R
TO FIND RESISTANCE R=E2/P R=E/I R=P/I2
Hope someone learned something on this one...
Swez COFFEE
cplkittle on 03/21/2004 13:36:57
Also, all of your high end amplifiers now are displaying the RMS, not the peak power. (Eclipse DA7122 [1000.1] ; Diamond D5 1200.1 ; JL 1000/1 ; Kicker KX1200.1) These are all RMS ratings. Yes they are expensive, but you get what you pay for ...most of the time.
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