Hello all!
Just a quick question. I'm working on another stereo project. Involving the addition of midbass drivers. What would be the best crossover point for midbass? I did some research, but am still a bit confused. There are 6.5" mids in kickpanels, and the mid bass will be Image Dynamics CX52, 5.25" 2-ohm.
Link: http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/IDSCX52
The current 6.5" comps are crossed at 65hz... I researched and found midrange to be anything 100-3000hz. I was thinking something like 100-300hz. Any input?
Thanks,
Derek
Replies (12)
swez on 03/2/2004 13:21:16
If you added subs a slight adjustment can be made.
Subs: 35 - 80 Hz.
MB: 80 - 300 "ish"
Mids: 300 - tweeter limit (1,500-5,000 depending on specs)
A 5/4" MB will not do well in power handling or SPL below 80 Hz. The 6.5" driver can handle that lower gear better.
Also, filtering will be tricky here too. You need a narrow "Q" band pass filter on MB and Comps. The Comps probably have that already, but your MB filter should be the same slope factor.. 12, 18 or 24dB/octave.
Swez
dflock on 03/2/2004 16:56:22
Sorry for not putting all needed info in my previous post. I was in a rush to get to work. This system has a 12" Adire Brahma involved which plays at 70hz and down. The front components are CDT Eurosports [6.5"], playing at 65hz and up.brbrWould these MBs work well enough to warrant the install? I figure one can use Harrison Labs FMODs to create a bandpass filter. This is all running through a Coustic 3-way crossover, so I can cross the low freq. out at 100hz and then use a Harrison Labs FMOD to stop at 300hz (ish) on the Midbass. Or possibly the other way around...brbrNow, slope factor? I would assume that can be taken care of by using the same crossover (3-way) correct? brbrSwez, thanks for the good information. I will check in later to see what else you or someone else may have added. I've also begun investigating the "aperiodic membrane" enclosure. They seem very very interesting and would like to work on making one of those for the Brahma, as they are high in SQ and flat speaker response. Have you any experience with them? I found a few articles on them, enough to educate me. I may contact Adire Audio and see what information they might have.brbrbrThanks,brDerekbr
swez on 03/2/2004 20:09:42
Seems to me, the CDT's use a high slope factor x-over. Are you not getting enough MB from them already???
Also, since these are 2 ohm MB's matching the output SPL may require a dedicated amp channel or 2. The FMODS are 12dB/oct slopes but would be best to match the slope of the CDT crossover or you may have phase shifting and time aligment problems as well.
Seems to me, CDT has a 3-way system in one of their lines. All matched drivers and x-overs too. That's the best way to go IMHO... but it's not my $$$ either. GRIN
Swez
asplundher on 03/3/2004 05:39:45
What kind of bass are you looking for? An aperiodic enclosure might not be what you want. For decent output they usually only sound good with higher Q subs of a large nature (15" or better) and can be hard to build properly. Even then they don't have the low end slam of a sealed or ported enclosure. Their main quality is a smaller than usual box and increased efficiency. I really wouldn't recommend one especially if your not experienced with them.
dflock on 03/3/2004 10:54:43
Hmpf... all these problems!
Well, for the MBs, they would be run off thier own dedicated amp at 2 ohms. Had I been able to get a deal on 3way EuroSports, I would have gotten them, but I did manage to get the 6.5"s for a hell of a price.
I am getting decent midrange from the CDTs right now, but just not quite enough to help keep the soundstage in the front. My idea was to put the midbass in the doors and help pull the soundstage forward a bit more. It seems to me that this might be way too complicated now.
I was under the assumption that one could put in an amp for the MBs, set the gains and crossovers and bam! Guess not.
dflock on 03/3/2004 11:17:11
asplunder,not good eh? Maybe I'd be better off in the sealed box that I have now. I'm really just trying to make room in my trunk. My current box is 1.2cf, but made with lots of width, not depth. So it goes from one side of my trunk to the other. I would really like to have a setup where the amps are bolted to the back seats and the sub fires into the cabin of the car through the "ski" pass in the center rear seat.brbrMy other options are making/buying a box that is narrow and deep. So I could wedge it up against the opening and have space on the left and right side for amps/crossovers, etc. From what I've been able to read, the Aperiodic is an SQ install, kind of a pain, but once done can easily be tuned by adding or removing "fill" from the mebrane. Though I do listen to rap and techno from time to time, I have become quite into the warmth and SQ of the bass and not just how loud it gets. Though I do love a quick thump on the chest, this aperiodic membrane may be leading me into the wrong direction. I wish I could hear this kind of setup.br
swez on 03/3/2004 11:35:00
Don't give up yet... there are options here...
A kick panel install would be very good for the MB drivers noted. That will give you an easy install location and a psudo- enclosure for them too.
A modest 2 channel amp is all you need to drive them and use the low pass filter network on the amp to control the upper range limits of the driver. Can then install FMODS ( a pair) to block lows you don't want going to this driver... say 50-80 Hz and below. That will give you the bandpass frequency to control MB efficiently.
The main issue I see here, you have 6.5" midbass drivers from CDT. The 6.5" will go lower and handle more power than a 5/4" driver, which is better suited to midrange than MB as it will go lower.
I think if you added an EQ preamp to your system, and pushed the CDT's closer to their potential with say 100 watts/channel, that would solve most of your issues. The CDT's have the range and power handling ability... just may need more power and some EQ to get them to full potential.
Can always save the 5/4"s or sell them. In fact, what kinda price do you want for them if you chose to sell?
Swez
dflock on 03/3/2004 11:54:48
Ha, swez... always looking for a deal aren't you?! ;)
I'm not ready to give up quite yet. The CDTs [comps] are run off a SoundStream Rubincon 500-II [a modest 100 watts/channel at 12.6v]. These new Image Dynamic Mids would be run off a SoundStream USA180 [90 watts/rms x 2].
I figure what I will do is buy the FMods and wiring, wait till spring time when it gets a bit warmer out, drop in the MBs and hook up the SoundStream USA-180 and see what happens. If I don't like the sound, or it just becomes too much of a hassle then I'll look to do something else with them.
Had I been able too, I would have gotten the CDTs 5/4" EuroSports put those in kickpanels, and then 6.5"s in the doors for MBs. Oops!
swez on 03/3/2004 12:27:00
Maybe a good deal, perhaps not... just curious what you will do next. My gain at your expense is not a win-win scenario and if you knew me better... you'd never insinuate that in jest or for real.
I spend many hours a week (>3 years now) supporting this board and it's readership. Never asked for a dime. Not that I don't need it... but just do what comes naturally... lend support, teach, guidance, share options and information that people can use.
But I do hope you come to a workabe solution with the gear you have now. Just asked a simple question as I do have an application where a 2 ohm, 5/4" might be a good option. It's not for me personally I ask... but another party.
Are there more deals on these that others can participate? That's what I really desire to know... if so, care to share your sources... we do!
Swez
dflock on 03/3/2004 14:53:33
I figure to try and use them for this installation, if they fail then I would always be looking for someone to help take them off my hands.
Swez, if generosity and time to this board was money you'd be a rich man. I appreciate what you've done here, and the people that you've helped.
As to the 5/4"s, it will be atleast another few weeks till i get a chance and get them into my car. I'm not sure when your third party needed these by, if I do not use them, I will let you know. I paid @ $110 including shipping for them. Found a deal on eBay for them brand new in box. of course now the warranty is out the window, but I feel they should be fine. They sell for $169 on SoundDomain.
Cheers,
Derek
swez on 03/3/2004 16:45:47
Sorry Derek... wound a bit too tight on a few matters that I cannot get a grip on... It's my issues and I don't need to get snippy with you or anyone else. Thanks for the kuddo's too. I do appreciate a word of well done once in a while.
No hurry on the MB drivers. I did look them up on the web link you gave and yes, these are very nice. The 2 ohms load is what caught my attention and the size. But if you can use them and it works out well, that's what counts.
Swez
PS You got a very good deal too! :~)
dflock on 03/3/2004 23:23:38
No problem.
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