alright so i have a 95 s-10 truck and have been replacing and adding things recetly, i put in an alpine cda-9813 head unit and decided to get some subs, my manager sold me his slightly used pioneer 350w 10"s (from best buy, meh) 2 of them in a box that actualy fits in my truck, well i picked up an alpine mrp-m350 mono amp thats 200w rms @ 4 ohms, 350w rms @ 2 ohms, the dealer said that amp would be perfect for the subs. well i had a good friend wire the amp and subs, well the amp gets power but it seems maybe not enough as the subs push a little bit but not make much sound if any at all. right now they are plugged into sub rca, but my manager said at first he had the same problem afirst and had to switch the rcas to the rear out, i tried and that didnt work. either way all the bass still seems to be comming from my door speakers. can anyone thing of what the problem could be and the source wiether the head unit amp or sub or wireing of one of those?
Replies (7)
uochronos on 02/29/2004 03:02:44
ok a few questions so we can better help you. first are these subs 350watts each? a model number would really help us on the subs if you can get one too. how are the subs wired? if the subs are wired wrong you wont be getting the right power to them. and i would stick with the sub outs for the amp not the rear outs.
the few things that stick out to me that could be wrong is 1: the subs are wired for a 4 ohm load and you only giveing them 200watts. 2: these subs are 350watts a peice and your only giveing them 350watts total which would not power them well. 3 the gain or other setting on your amp are not set properly.
we well need to know more info like i asked for above to narrow it down for you.
~Chronos
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 03:18:37
each sub is 350 wmax, the amp is also 700w max. sadly i do not know the model number, thats the biggest problem with buying them used. the guy at the store i bought the amp at seemed to know which subs they were or at least pretended to, and said they were something only like 100w rms. we weired them in series, though at first i belive the were done wrong after thinking about circuit theory i realized, correct me if im wrong but the + of the amp should go to the + of the 1st sub and then the - of the 1st should go to the + of the 2nd then the - of the 2nd to the neg of the amp. but when i did that that still didnt do anything. if theres anything ask and ill try to provide the info as best as i can. thanks for trying to help
cplkittle on 02/29/2004 09:42:09
Seems that there is a problem in how you have the subs wired.. From what you are telling me in the last post you have them wired in series. Is this the same speaker (Are they DVCs?) If they are DVC subs, you more than likely have 8ohms on each speaker. If they are single voice coils, you have 8 ohms total. (Assuming they are 4ohm voice coils)
...still assuming they are 4ohm voice coils,
IF both speakers have ONE voice coil each, do this...
run them both to the amp like you would any other speaker + to + and - to -. The wires from both speakers should go into the same terminals. Here you are wiring the subs in parallel at the amp, giving you a 2ohm load.
IF both speakers have TWO voice coils each, do this...
Run the positive from the amp to the positive of VC1, then run the negative of VC1 to the positive of VC2, from there run the negative of VC2 back to the amp. This gives you an 8ohm load. do this for both speakers. When you get to the amp, put both positive wires in to the positive amp terminal, and likewise with the negative. You now have a 4ohm load at the amp. This is the only configuration you can use with both speakers if they are DVC.. the only other configuration would give you 1ohm, which your amp does not say it can handle.
swez on 02/29/2004 13:28:34
I don't know for sure, but Pioneer does not make to many DVC's until of late. Generally they are 4 ohm SVC's.
As CPL said, you seem to have wired them in series for an 8 ohm load. That will give you way less power from the subs to amp than if wired parallel in a 2 ohm net load. That's a -6dB gain loss in wiring in series. More like 50-75 watts per sub this way.
Rewire them in parallel, set your gain on amp to match HU output, (2-4 volts) check HU gain control in sub out menu too. That may be way down and make sure your LP filter on amp is set to ~80 Hz.
Swez
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 14:44:38
well looks like my friend is a bumbass and they should have been in series, though i myself should have caught the mistake. thank you much for the help, it saved me much embarresment if i had gone somewhere to get it looked at when the problem was so simplistic
swez on 02/29/2004 17:56:24
You mean ... should have been in parallel yes? 4//4 = 2 ohms. And no, your friend may have had an amp that needed 4 ohms or higher to work right before and not to familiar with Class D mono amps. He got the rest of the system done right though huh? Not totally dumb.
Anyway, there is no such thing as a dumb question here. All questions are valid and so are the folks that ask them. We all were greenhorns at one point or another. Just change the wiring and see what happends.
Swez
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 19:57:35
yeah i ment parallel, when at work i was doing the math of both and realized it should be switched, so on my break i did, and they worked quite well though still gotta try to tweek the amp settings and all that
Replies (7)
uochronos on 02/29/2004 03:02:44
ok a few questions so we can better help you. first are these subs 350watts each? a model number would really help us on the subs if you can get one too. how are the subs wired? if the subs are wired wrong you wont be getting the right power to them. and i would stick with the sub outs for the amp not the rear outs.
the few things that stick out to me that could be wrong is 1: the subs are wired for a 4 ohm load and you only giveing them 200watts. 2: these subs are 350watts a peice and your only giveing them 350watts total which would not power them well. 3 the gain or other setting on your amp are not set properly.
we well need to know more info like i asked for above to narrow it down for you.
~Chronos
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 03:18:37
each sub is 350 wmax, the amp is also 700w max. sadly i do not know the model number, thats the biggest problem with buying them used. the guy at the store i bought the amp at seemed to know which subs they were or at least pretended to, and said they were something only like 100w rms. we weired them in series, though at first i belive the were done wrong after thinking about circuit theory i realized, correct me if im wrong but the + of the amp should go to the + of the 1st sub and then the - of the 1st should go to the + of the 2nd then the - of the 2nd to the neg of the amp. but when i did that that still didnt do anything. if theres anything ask and ill try to provide the info as best as i can. thanks for trying to help
cplkittle on 02/29/2004 09:42:09
Seems that there is a problem in how you have the subs wired.. From what you are telling me in the last post you have them wired in series. Is this the same speaker (Are they DVCs?) If they are DVC subs, you more than likely have 8ohms on each speaker. If they are single voice coils, you have 8 ohms total. (Assuming they are 4ohm voice coils)
...still assuming they are 4ohm voice coils,
IF both speakers have ONE voice coil each, do this...
run them both to the amp like you would any other speaker + to + and - to -. The wires from both speakers should go into the same terminals. Here you are wiring the subs in parallel at the amp, giving you a 2ohm load.
IF both speakers have TWO voice coils each, do this...
Run the positive from the amp to the positive of VC1, then run the negative of VC1 to the positive of VC2, from there run the negative of VC2 back to the amp. This gives you an 8ohm load. do this for both speakers. When you get to the amp, put both positive wires in to the positive amp terminal, and likewise with the negative. You now have a 4ohm load at the amp. This is the only configuration you can use with both speakers if they are DVC.. the only other configuration would give you 1ohm, which your amp does not say it can handle.
swez on 02/29/2004 13:28:34
I don't know for sure, but Pioneer does not make to many DVC's until of late. Generally they are 4 ohm SVC's.
As CPL said, you seem to have wired them in series for an 8 ohm load. That will give you way less power from the subs to amp than if wired parallel in a 2 ohm net load. That's a -6dB gain loss in wiring in series. More like 50-75 watts per sub this way.
Rewire them in parallel, set your gain on amp to match HU output, (2-4 volts) check HU gain control in sub out menu too. That may be way down and make sure your LP filter on amp is set to ~80 Hz.
Swez
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 14:44:38
well looks like my friend is a bumbass and they should have been in series, though i myself should have caught the mistake. thank you much for the help, it saved me much embarresment if i had gone somewhere to get it looked at when the problem was so simplistic
swez on 02/29/2004 17:56:24
You mean ... should have been in parallel yes? 4//4 = 2 ohms. And no, your friend may have had an amp that needed 4 ohms or higher to work right before and not to familiar with Class D mono amps. He got the rest of the system done right though huh? Not totally dumb.
Anyway, there is no such thing as a dumb question here. All questions are valid and so are the folks that ask them. We all were greenhorns at one point or another. Just change the wiring and see what happends.
Swez
No_Heroes on 02/29/2004 19:57:35
yeah i ment parallel, when at work i was doing the math of both and realized it should be switched, so on my break i did, and they worked quite well though still gotta try to tweek the amp settings and all that
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