I'm in the process of changing the 4 speakers in my 02 Ford super duty and ran across a snag. I used a few different wiring diagrams from the net to find out speaker wire colors and on the right rear speaker nothing matched, so I finally found a diagram with those color wires and it shows the factory system to be amplified. My confusion is that its not the premium sound system, just the am/fm casette. How do I figure out if it is factory amped and if it is how can I bypass that because I plan to add amps and subs. Thanks for any help
Replies (30)
swez on 02/28/2004 11:27:41
Chance are, this may/ may not be an amped system. Ttocs can help you more on this and how to find them if it is.
From my readings of his recent posts, the amps are hidden in the rear side panels or under the dash. Pulling the HU to look at the harness configuration and wire codes may give you a better idea as to what you have now. According to your wire code detail... this may indeed be an amped system. If that is true, adding aftermarket speakers to the amps in the vehicle will definitly improve overall sound quality and SPL.
To determine the right wires to each speaker, can pull the HU (using the special "U" clip tools, and probe the speaker harness with an ohmeter to figure out which wires correspond to what locations the speakers are.
When probing the harness, set your meter to low ohms scale and as you probe, listen for a slight click or pop noise and determine which speaker it is coming from and log that color scheme to the proper location.
In the event you have a factory amp installed, you may not hear anything as you probe the speaker harness as the amps are shut off and no signal will pass through the amps.
Let's see what ttocs has to say before you press on.
Swez
ram1 on 02/29/2004 03:24:30
Thanks Swez, I have the tool to pull the headunit out and I'll do the test, another thing I forgot to mention is that in the speaker wire harness to the left rear speaker there is a rather thick black wire that runs with those 2 speaker wires and goes to a chassis ground. I can't tell where that wire comes from, but with having both rear panels removed, I didn't notice an amp in there unless they have it tucked down in between the sheetmetal. Keep in touch please if you find anything out because I want to install my Kicker amps and my sub and that factory amp, if there will be a problem, right? Thanks
Relax_The_Mind on 02/29/2004 04:08:43
You can also use a simple size D battery or so to test which wires go to which speakers to hear that "pop" and "scratch" sound.
Little tip for those who dont carry multimeters...
RTM
swez on 02/29/2004 08:29:17
Ttocs would know how to advise you on locations for the facdtory amps, if any. There are also forums out there that explore the install process of F150's w/ amps. Just do a google search and see what you find.
Type in "Line out converters" and then review the listings for details.
Swez
PS You may wind up using LOC's for this HU/amp configuration and there is a good selection of same at: www.davidnavone.com
ram1 on 03/1/2004 01:49:17
Thanks Swez and RTM. I'm going to check it out and I think I'm going the LOC route for now, but plan on a better headunit when summer comes and the overtime starts!!! The Kicker amps cleaned me out for awhile ... Thanks again
swez on 03/1/2004 10:35:39
Great LOCs... www.davidnavone.com
Swez
ttocs on 03/1/2004 12:56:42
I have never seen an f150 with a premium system.... not saying that is not the case, just never done one. You should not have anything to worry about. Are you replacing all the speakers? If that is the case don't worry about the polarity. When I do an install replacing all the speakers I just take note of the hrns I disconnect to the speaker. There is normally a clip on one side and I take note then of which wire I will designate as posative, in regards to the clip. If you wire all the speakers the same, you are good as golden...
ram1 on 03/2/2004 01:16:57
Thanks much , yep ttocs I'm changing all 4 speakers so now I guess thats one less deal to worry about huh? I had to cut some metal out of the back to fit the 6x9 Kickers, but just with them it really made a difference. Took the original Ford speakers and wired them up in my garage!!! Well thanks, I'm going to check out that website you guys mentioned for a LOC.
swez on 03/2/2004 13:43:52
The LOC's are only needed if you plan to amp the interiors or add a sub. Converts HU voltage to RCA line levels for amping compatibilty.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 04:17:23
OK Swez, I plan to add an amp for the 4 speakers in the doors, then an amp and sub later, kind of keep doing a little at a time as I go along. Today I started putting the door speakers in and I'm putting Kicker RS 5 component system speakers in the factory front door locations. I need your opinion as to where to put the crossovers. I put the tweets in the top of the doorpanels, ( in the little trim piece ) about 8 inches above the midranges, but how and where do you guys put the crossovers? The instructions said it's OK to put them in the door near the mids, but how do you keep them secure?
swez on 03/3/2004 09:14:41
Two sided tape, hot glue or even velcro will work. The key... keep them from getting wet. Sometimes a plastic or neoprene flap, over the top of the x-over is good enough. (water shield)
If you think there is a good chance they will get wet, better to mount them under the dash panel somewhere and run an extra set of wires for them... need 4 altogether.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 14:58:23
Thanks again Swez, Hope it sounds as good as it's lookin!
ttocs on 03/3/2004 16:30:19
I would get some self tapping screws myself.. imagine the force that is put on the crossover as someone slamms the door.. I have put many many in the doors, but do NOT just leave them on the bottom. Water collects there and generally does not drain well...
swez on 03/3/2004 16:53:26
That was my first thought too ttocs... just not sure how to install self tappers inside a door. Drilling a few small mounting holes (crossover as a template) and pop rivet them in may be easy and secure too.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 21:51:06
OK guys, I got it done tonight. I marked the holes on the outside of the inner door and then drilled them out. Then I got my wiring done and wrapped the whole thing in foam rubber surrounded by a ziplock bag, then attached it from the inside. Hey, you guys are making me a car audio dude I think!!! Thanks, and oh yea, I didn't get the drivers door done yet and you can't believe the difference between the factory speaker and the new component. I also added some links for the site too....
swez on 03/4/2004 23:54:54
The zip lock should have air holes to prevent condensation... not air tight.
Swez
ram1 on 03/5/2004 00:45:56
Swez, this is bothering me. I installed those components in the doors and the midrange driver fit the factory hole, but it didn't seal the hole. I just had to redrill, but in other words, theres a space around the speaker. Probably dumb question, but should this be a tight seal and if so, how would I go about doing this? Maybe plexiglass as you suggested in another post?
swez on 03/5/2004 14:19:16
Air tight so that rattles do not come into play. If you have only minor air leaks in the door mount, can use silicone sealer (latex) to caulk up the holes. Cleans up with water so you get a clean seal. Allow to cure over night, before you test the seals.
If you wish to use a donut spacer, refer to my reply on your other post for today.
Swez
ttocs on 03/7/2004 10:56:35
you will want to take the bag off of the crossover.. When you do look to see but there should be some vents in there to allow for airflow.. I have seen crossovers get hot enough to melt the plastic case they are packaged in.. If it is sealed and there are no vents then you are fine.
I use self tappers EVERYWHERE!!! I often mount x-overs to the inside of the door, between the panel and the metal(when available). Sometimes I have had to mount them deeper, but not often. While the panel is off, make sure you have full movement of the window... Always a big pain to think you are done and realize the window is hitting something.
Car audio is not rocket surgery.....
swez on 03/7/2004 11:16:10
Glad you mentioned the heating of the crossovers... That makes a lot of sense when a large amount of power is flowing through same in an enclosed area.
Try a rain flap over the top to prevent rain/water from landing on the crossovers. Neoprene or high heat resistant material here.
Swez
ttocs on 03/7/2004 15:16:05
as long as they are not on the bottom of the doors, you should not have to worry about water.
ram1 on 03/8/2004 02:17:42
OK, I took the plastic off, but I think I have them in a pretty decent place, about halfway down the door on the inside just behind the doorpanel. I'm letting them breathe, but what worrys me is the midrange. Its smaller than what the factory speaker was, but I used that same location, just redrilled and mounted them. Its not sealed around the driver, actually I have a pretty good size gap, but I have no rattles or anything. Does a speaker have to be sealed or is that freespace OK? Its tight and sounds alright. Funny about the window thing you mention, I was just finishing up and realized my window caught the neg. wire so I had to reroute things a bit!!! Yep, you guys warn about that and I'm here to say your so right!!!
ttocs on 03/8/2004 11:07:43
kewl man, glad to hear they are in and working.
If you want to get a little better sound, and make it look better there are two things you can do.
1.) make baffles to mount the speakers in. You can use mdf(medium density fiber board) available at any home depot. Take the factory speaker and trace it on the wood. Now take your speaker and trace it where you want it to be mounted. If you have the new speakers grill you can use that to see where the mounting hole would be. Now cut that out, paint it black, and mount the speaker in it, and the baffle to the door. This will seal up the gaps and help a little.
2.) Get some dynamat or the equivilent(brown bread is half the price, just as good) and deaden the door. If you put a complete layer on the door it will help to make an enclosure out of the door, and make a HUGE difference in the bass and midbass from the speakers...
And again make sure to wire tie everything nice and tight...
swez on 03/8/2004 11:39:45
An air tight seal between front of cone and rear cone sound waves are what you need here. If the rear wave escapes out an air leak in the front part of the cone, cancellations will become evident.
What ttocs suggested on MDF mounting plate is the best option. The better the seal, the better the MB response will be.
Swez
ram1 on 03/8/2004 18:29:53
OK, so off to Lowes I'm going for the fiberboard. I have to admit that I'd never thought of doing the seal up that way. I'd probably went the sheetmetal, bloody, jagged metal route the hard way. Thanks again, you guys have no idea how much help you are, I mean really, us not so experienced people really appreciate your time with us....
ttocs on 03/9/2004 11:13:46
I realize how much we help, and i enjoy doing it. I remember when I started all the dumb stuff I did, and learned from. I am suprised I did not set my own vehicle or anyone elses on fire..... But it is nice to hear the appreciation, your welcome.
swez on 03/9/2004 11:37:16
Thanks for the kuddos... care to make a modest donation to keep this site running and growing? SMILE
Swez
ram1 on 03/9/2004 22:40:42
I sure will Swez, I thought about the donation awhile ago and I definitly will. I drive a concrete truck in Pennsylvania and work's been very slow with this nasty winter, but we're picking up now and a donation will be on the way. This is the coolest car audio site on the net. You guys make us feel like asking and digging in deeper as we go with our projects. Thanks again guys . ram1
ttocs on 03/10/2004 08:52:05
wait, you think your done? We still need to add a few thousand watts of sweet bumping love(great massage!)........ Car audio is never done.....
We really are glad to help. The only reason the donation was mentioned was that we have had some difficulty with funding from time to time, and the site has come and gone. Walt does a great job running it(at no monitary gain to him), and it is only recently we suggested to him to ask for $5 er $10, when people can spare it. Take your time if ya need it, we understand.
swez on 03/10/2004 10:13:03
Exactly! This site was funded completely out of our Moderators pocket and was forced to shut down for several months in 2002-2003. This left a real gap in the places folks could go for helpful advice.
At our insistance, Walter added a donation link and so far, people have responded vey well. You can see the donations count to date. Not bad... but slow as well. Your support is part of keeping this site operational for others as well.
Many of us have and do donate on a regular basis. It is to pay for server time, site upgrades and the like. The Golds do all our work on a volunteer, no fee basis. We are happy to help and no monitary gain is not a problem for serious teachers and mentors.
Swez
Replies (30)
swez on 02/28/2004 11:27:41
Chance are, this may/ may not be an amped system. Ttocs can help you more on this and how to find them if it is.
From my readings of his recent posts, the amps are hidden in the rear side panels or under the dash. Pulling the HU to look at the harness configuration and wire codes may give you a better idea as to what you have now. According to your wire code detail... this may indeed be an amped system. If that is true, adding aftermarket speakers to the amps in the vehicle will definitly improve overall sound quality and SPL.
To determine the right wires to each speaker, can pull the HU (using the special "U" clip tools, and probe the speaker harness with an ohmeter to figure out which wires correspond to what locations the speakers are.
When probing the harness, set your meter to low ohms scale and as you probe, listen for a slight click or pop noise and determine which speaker it is coming from and log that color scheme to the proper location.
In the event you have a factory amp installed, you may not hear anything as you probe the speaker harness as the amps are shut off and no signal will pass through the amps.
Let's see what ttocs has to say before you press on.
Swez
ram1 on 02/29/2004 03:24:30
Thanks Swez, I have the tool to pull the headunit out and I'll do the test, another thing I forgot to mention is that in the speaker wire harness to the left rear speaker there is a rather thick black wire that runs with those 2 speaker wires and goes to a chassis ground. I can't tell where that wire comes from, but with having both rear panels removed, I didn't notice an amp in there unless they have it tucked down in between the sheetmetal. Keep in touch please if you find anything out because I want to install my Kicker amps and my sub and that factory amp, if there will be a problem, right? Thanks
Relax_The_Mind on 02/29/2004 04:08:43
You can also use a simple size D battery or so to test which wires go to which speakers to hear that "pop" and "scratch" sound.
Little tip for those who dont carry multimeters...
RTM
swez on 02/29/2004 08:29:17
Ttocs would know how to advise you on locations for the facdtory amps, if any. There are also forums out there that explore the install process of F150's w/ amps. Just do a google search and see what you find.
Type in "Line out converters" and then review the listings for details.
Swez
PS You may wind up using LOC's for this HU/amp configuration and there is a good selection of same at: www.davidnavone.com
ram1 on 03/1/2004 01:49:17
Thanks Swez and RTM. I'm going to check it out and I think I'm going the LOC route for now, but plan on a better headunit when summer comes and the overtime starts!!! The Kicker amps cleaned me out for awhile ... Thanks again
swez on 03/1/2004 10:35:39
Great LOCs... www.davidnavone.com
Swez
ttocs on 03/1/2004 12:56:42
I have never seen an f150 with a premium system.... not saying that is not the case, just never done one. You should not have anything to worry about. Are you replacing all the speakers? If that is the case don't worry about the polarity. When I do an install replacing all the speakers I just take note of the hrns I disconnect to the speaker. There is normally a clip on one side and I take note then of which wire I will designate as posative, in regards to the clip. If you wire all the speakers the same, you are good as golden...
ram1 on 03/2/2004 01:16:57
Thanks much , yep ttocs I'm changing all 4 speakers so now I guess thats one less deal to worry about huh? I had to cut some metal out of the back to fit the 6x9 Kickers, but just with them it really made a difference. Took the original Ford speakers and wired them up in my garage!!! Well thanks, I'm going to check out that website you guys mentioned for a LOC.
swez on 03/2/2004 13:43:52
The LOC's are only needed if you plan to amp the interiors or add a sub. Converts HU voltage to RCA line levels for amping compatibilty.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 04:17:23
OK Swez, I plan to add an amp for the 4 speakers in the doors, then an amp and sub later, kind of keep doing a little at a time as I go along. Today I started putting the door speakers in and I'm putting Kicker RS 5 component system speakers in the factory front door locations. I need your opinion as to where to put the crossovers. I put the tweets in the top of the doorpanels, ( in the little trim piece ) about 8 inches above the midranges, but how and where do you guys put the crossovers? The instructions said it's OK to put them in the door near the mids, but how do you keep them secure?
swez on 03/3/2004 09:14:41
Two sided tape, hot glue or even velcro will work. The key... keep them from getting wet. Sometimes a plastic or neoprene flap, over the top of the x-over is good enough. (water shield)
If you think there is a good chance they will get wet, better to mount them under the dash panel somewhere and run an extra set of wires for them... need 4 altogether.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 14:58:23
Thanks again Swez, Hope it sounds as good as it's lookin!
ttocs on 03/3/2004 16:30:19
I would get some self tapping screws myself.. imagine the force that is put on the crossover as someone slamms the door.. I have put many many in the doors, but do NOT just leave them on the bottom. Water collects there and generally does not drain well...
swez on 03/3/2004 16:53:26
That was my first thought too ttocs... just not sure how to install self tappers inside a door. Drilling a few small mounting holes (crossover as a template) and pop rivet them in may be easy and secure too.
Swez
ram1 on 03/3/2004 21:51:06
OK guys, I got it done tonight. I marked the holes on the outside of the inner door and then drilled them out. Then I got my wiring done and wrapped the whole thing in foam rubber surrounded by a ziplock bag, then attached it from the inside. Hey, you guys are making me a car audio dude I think!!! Thanks, and oh yea, I didn't get the drivers door done yet and you can't believe the difference between the factory speaker and the new component. I also added some links for the site too....
swez on 03/4/2004 23:54:54
The zip lock should have air holes to prevent condensation... not air tight.
Swez
ram1 on 03/5/2004 00:45:56
Swez, this is bothering me. I installed those components in the doors and the midrange driver fit the factory hole, but it didn't seal the hole. I just had to redrill, but in other words, theres a space around the speaker. Probably dumb question, but should this be a tight seal and if so, how would I go about doing this? Maybe plexiglass as you suggested in another post?
swez on 03/5/2004 14:19:16
Air tight so that rattles do not come into play. If you have only minor air leaks in the door mount, can use silicone sealer (latex) to caulk up the holes. Cleans up with water so you get a clean seal. Allow to cure over night, before you test the seals.
If you wish to use a donut spacer, refer to my reply on your other post for today.
Swez
ttocs on 03/7/2004 10:56:35
you will want to take the bag off of the crossover.. When you do look to see but there should be some vents in there to allow for airflow.. I have seen crossovers get hot enough to melt the plastic case they are packaged in.. If it is sealed and there are no vents then you are fine.
I use self tappers EVERYWHERE!!! I often mount x-overs to the inside of the door, between the panel and the metal(when available). Sometimes I have had to mount them deeper, but not often. While the panel is off, make sure you have full movement of the window... Always a big pain to think you are done and realize the window is hitting something.
Car audio is not rocket surgery.....
swez on 03/7/2004 11:16:10
Glad you mentioned the heating of the crossovers... That makes a lot of sense when a large amount of power is flowing through same in an enclosed area.
Try a rain flap over the top to prevent rain/water from landing on the crossovers. Neoprene or high heat resistant material here.
Swez
ttocs on 03/7/2004 15:16:05
as long as they are not on the bottom of the doors, you should not have to worry about water.
ram1 on 03/8/2004 02:17:42
OK, I took the plastic off, but I think I have them in a pretty decent place, about halfway down the door on the inside just behind the doorpanel. I'm letting them breathe, but what worrys me is the midrange. Its smaller than what the factory speaker was, but I used that same location, just redrilled and mounted them. Its not sealed around the driver, actually I have a pretty good size gap, but I have no rattles or anything. Does a speaker have to be sealed or is that freespace OK? Its tight and sounds alright. Funny about the window thing you mention, I was just finishing up and realized my window caught the neg. wire so I had to reroute things a bit!!! Yep, you guys warn about that and I'm here to say your so right!!!
ttocs on 03/8/2004 11:07:43
kewl man, glad to hear they are in and working.
If you want to get a little better sound, and make it look better there are two things you can do.
1.) make baffles to mount the speakers in. You can use mdf(medium density fiber board) available at any home depot. Take the factory speaker and trace it on the wood. Now take your speaker and trace it where you want it to be mounted. If you have the new speakers grill you can use that to see where the mounting hole would be. Now cut that out, paint it black, and mount the speaker in it, and the baffle to the door. This will seal up the gaps and help a little.
2.) Get some dynamat or the equivilent(brown bread is half the price, just as good) and deaden the door. If you put a complete layer on the door it will help to make an enclosure out of the door, and make a HUGE difference in the bass and midbass from the speakers...
And again make sure to wire tie everything nice and tight...
swez on 03/8/2004 11:39:45
An air tight seal between front of cone and rear cone sound waves are what you need here. If the rear wave escapes out an air leak in the front part of the cone, cancellations will become evident.
What ttocs suggested on MDF mounting plate is the best option. The better the seal, the better the MB response will be.
Swez
ram1 on 03/8/2004 18:29:53
OK, so off to Lowes I'm going for the fiberboard. I have to admit that I'd never thought of doing the seal up that way. I'd probably went the sheetmetal, bloody, jagged metal route the hard way. Thanks again, you guys have no idea how much help you are, I mean really, us not so experienced people really appreciate your time with us....
ttocs on 03/9/2004 11:13:46
I realize how much we help, and i enjoy doing it. I remember when I started all the dumb stuff I did, and learned from. I am suprised I did not set my own vehicle or anyone elses on fire..... But it is nice to hear the appreciation, your welcome.
swez on 03/9/2004 11:37:16
Thanks for the kuddos... care to make a modest donation to keep this site running and growing? SMILE
Swez
ram1 on 03/9/2004 22:40:42
I sure will Swez, I thought about the donation awhile ago and I definitly will. I drive a concrete truck in Pennsylvania and work's been very slow with this nasty winter, but we're picking up now and a donation will be on the way. This is the coolest car audio site on the net. You guys make us feel like asking and digging in deeper as we go with our projects. Thanks again guys . ram1
ttocs on 03/10/2004 08:52:05
wait, you think your done? We still need to add a few thousand watts of sweet bumping love(great massage!)........ Car audio is never done.....
We really are glad to help. The only reason the donation was mentioned was that we have had some difficulty with funding from time to time, and the site has come and gone. Walt does a great job running it(at no monitary gain to him), and it is only recently we suggested to him to ask for $5 er $10, when people can spare it. Take your time if ya need it, we understand.
swez on 03/10/2004 10:13:03
Exactly! This site was funded completely out of our Moderators pocket and was forced to shut down for several months in 2002-2003. This left a real gap in the places folks could go for helpful advice.
At our insistance, Walter added a donation link and so far, people have responded vey well. You can see the donations count to date. Not bad... but slow as well. Your support is part of keeping this site operational for others as well.
Many of us have and do donate on a regular basis. It is to pay for server time, site upgrades and the like. The Golds do all our work on a volunteer, no fee basis. We are happy to help and no monitary gain is not a problem for serious teachers and mentors.
Swez
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