will there be a considerable difference in loudness comming from my interior speakers if i put them on an amp instead of my HU. they are loud now but my bass kinda drowns them out. also would it be better to run my alpine 6.5s or my mtx 6x9s in the rear? i have the 6x9s now, just wondering if the 6.5s would be louder. it dont matter cuz my sub or mounted in back seat area, just thought maybe they would be heard better from the front seat.
Replies (24)
Swez on 05/5/2003 15:50:38
Most HU's have 15-27 watts (RMS) of power per channel. Not too bad if you have very efficient speakers. A Factory HU will give most cars ~90-95dB of SPL to mids and highs.
If you have a larger sub system installed, additional amping power is always a good option to balance out the mix. Depending on how loud you want the entire system to play (and how much power your intereior speakers can handle) I use roughly an 8:1 ratio ... meaning 800 watts subs, 100 watts to interior speakers per channel.
The other aspect of good balanced SQ system, is to match interior out SPL to subs. Say you target 110dB full range (that's pretty loud) would need 128 watts/channel interiors . (assuming 89dB ref @ 1 watt/1 meter) Cut that by 50%, (64 watts) you'll get 107dB... still very loud. Get the picture?
Say more about your system and we can have a look at the big picture.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/5/2003 23:17:51
for my interior speakers i have mtx 6x9s, 3 way(50w rms), and audiobahn 6.5s(90w rms) the ones with the removable tweeters. i also have a set of mtx 4x6s and alpine 6.5 fullrange that im not using. 2 kicker kx 600.1 amps and 2 kicker comp vr 15s(500w rms) im runnin them at 4ohms one 15 to one amp and the other 15 to the other amp. would be better to run both off just one amp but i dont wnat the other amp to just sit around. i was planning on getting the usx4065 4 channel amp 65x4 rms at 4 ohms. for them 4x6s and the alpine 6.5s should i run them off my deck and then run the 6x9s and the audiobahn 6.5s off that 4 channel amp, i have a set of crossovers on the way for the audiobahns. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
compvr15s on 05/5/2003 23:38:26
i guess what im tryin to say is, will this new amp allow me to run my speakers louder with out distorting them, and if so can ya please explain to me if ya dont mind. i dont want to waiste anymore money on this system, i started off just buyin everything cuz i was just going by what ppl told me, so now i got a 400 dollar amp and 2 sets of speakers and like 4 subwoofer boxes laying around.
Swez on 05/6/2003 05:39:42
OK, see your dilema... let's see if we can make some sense of all this extra gear you have now. And yes, a good 4 channel will deliver more power and much less distortion to your mid/tweets.
The Kicker amps are 600 RMS @ 2 ohms per each. The Comp VR 15's ... I believe, are DVC's.. 2/8 per sub. Your greatest output will be wiring each sun in parallel for a 2 ohms load to each amp. (have ~1200 RMS sub power here) That's a lot of bass power!
Now, to keep up with all that bass action (~140dB SPL?) will need some pretty potent interior amps and speakers or do a better job in this balancing act.
The 4x6" dash speakers are pretty much fluff (read useless) as they are really more like mid/tweets and cannot take too much bass. If you use them, I recommend filtering them HP above say 200 Hz. Personally, I would not use them at all... but that's a call only you can make. To many signal drivers, make for poor SQ and signal cancellations.
The Bahn 6.5's are the heart of the install in the front door panels will do a good job. Since these have removable tweeters, you can easily convert these to Component speakers (using the new crossovers) that will give very good imaging and power to your front stage. Installing the woofer section low in the door panel, and installing the tweeter in doors, at belly/chest level, aimed upward, will produce very good imaging results and good SPL with a strong amp.
For your rear stage, can use the Alpine 6.5". Not sure how much power they can take... but 50-75 watts is plenty for rear fill. If you have 6x9 holes in the rear deck, the MTX 3-ways can be substituted if that is easier for your install. However, if the Alpines sound better to you, can always make a plate and install the rounds in 6x9 holes with some carefull planning. (more on this one later) I have a few other ideas here too.
Now, for amping the interior stage, I would lean more toward the USX-4085 as you have 85 watts RMS per channel @ 4 ohms. Not much more expensive, a bit more power too. GOTO:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
As for balancing all drivers, your amp gains are the key to this. Yes, you have a large amount of bass power available, but if you want balance, dial back on the bass amp gains a bit to match what the interior stage speakers are doing. You can always do some of this from the HU if your HU has a sub out control function.
Digest this a while before you buy any additional gear. Need more feedback from you on what you want to do here so far. Once we get all the drivers and amp selections figured out, then you can proceed with the install, adding a new 4 channel amp and then dialing it all in for best overall performance.
What kind of HU are you using now and how many RCA outs does it have?
Comments?
Swez
PS What vehicle are we talking here? (GM Blazer or something similar?)
compvr15s on 05/6/2003 17:25:14
as for the car its an '88 pontiac grand prix coupe. i have the kenwood mpv619 cd player, with 2 outputs, front and rear/sub. im not really sure what im tryin to do with the system i just want the mids and highs to be louder. would i be better to try and trade the comp vr dual 2ohm subs in for dual 4 ohms so i can run them at 2 ohms to each amp. i really dont want to upgrade my alternator so i can have much more power draw, i could get a higher cca battery if that will help. i want more towards heavy bass tho, im not really looking for sq but i still want it to sound alright, not great tho, know what i mean. im only 19 right now, give me a few year then ill go for SQ when im near deaf lol. on that 4085 amp do ya know the current draw??? the kx 600.1 are 60 amps each.
this may be a little off the path but i have a question about amps. ok on my kx600.1s im only running them at 4 ohms which might be 250 300 watts, is that pulling as much current as it would be if it was running at 2 ohms around 600 watts. does increasing the load lower the power draw or does it still draw the same amount no matter howmany ohms im running it at? thanx alot for the help
Swez on 05/6/2003 17:35:31
Lots of good questions and am glad you break them into bite size pieces.
USX-4085, think that one draws ~ 40A at full power... not a huge power hog.
OK, so you have the DVC 1/2/4 ohm subs... 4 ohms is safe for the amp and yes, ~300 RMS at full power and will draw 60A each max, when you press them. If you have plenty of clean bass now, stay where you are with present subs. If you went to 4 ohm DVC's, would pick up ~+5-6 dB more bass. Up to you.
Your Car, probably a 105 or 120A alt here... so my guessm you are pretty close to your electrical limits now... when you push the subs. Do your lights dim at night on big bass hits? If not, you are pretty close to that coming into play if you add a 3rd amp.
You can try bumping up the batter amps rating... +800 CCA or more will help... but since this is a GM model, can easily upgrade to a larger output ALT w/o breaking the bank. A good WalMart Interstate BAT will run about $75.00
A quick call to a good autoparts dealer or two, should give a good ballpark price on a 140 - 165A version ALT. In most cases, these are the same form, fit as what you have now. A good rebuilt will be much cheaper than new and they usually come with lifetime warranty now... so not a bad option here.
The last 105 I bought was $66.00 rebuilt, I did get a 120 for my car... was under $100.00 but I was on the road when it failed and paid more than local parts stores would have charged here. My guess, a 140A rebuilt will be ~$125.00, maybe a tad less.
Also, you may want to seriously consider upgrading the ALT/BAT and BAT/GND wires to #4 gage. Stock wires are usually #6-8 gage. This will help transfer maximum current from ALT to BAT and amps.
Well, got to run...
Come back if you have more ?'s
Swez
compvr15s on 05/6/2003 20:35:50
thanx alot swez you have cleared alot of things up for me. i will check at autozone for the battery, my girlfriend works there so i get 20% discount, and also if its cheaper at a different autozone i get that price plus the 20% off. as for the alternator, the one i have now is a brand new duralast with lifetime warrenty, theres sumting i can buy and have placed in there to upgrade to 150 amps, i think i can get that done for 50 dollars, would that be ok to do or just try and find a rebuild one somewhere. the lights dim a lil bit but only when the car is in park or when im at a stop sign. as for the the battery and alt wires, can i just use stinger wire, i have bout 10 feet extra. do i just crimp the ring terminals and run it in place of the old wire? once again thanx alot:-D
Swez on 05/6/2003 22:26:06
Yes, if you have stinger wire now, just get terminal ends to match the lugs on Bat & ALT and make your own.
A 150A alt option should be adequate. Some better alts have an external diode/regulator add on kit for more output. If you can get that and boost your present alt output that way... is good! You can also change the pully diameter on the present alt to a smaller one. This will give more output at low RPM's as the alt is turning faster. Get the idea? Since your car probably has an adjustable serpentine belt and idler pully, should be OK with same belt.
I'd say you are well on your way here.
Swez
PS What are you going to use for rear fill speakers? Figured that one out yet? If you don like either the Alpines or the MTX you have now, I have a real gem 6x9's that sound very good in my car and only cost like $50.00 a pair and take 150 RMS watts RMS too. Very good midbass with these too. I was shocked when I installed them... not bad for a cheaper brand speaker.
Look here: http://www.justcarspeakers.com/
American Pro: VS1469C
4 WAY 6"X9"
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 13:24:11
i have another question. since i am unable to have passangers in my back seat due to placement of my subs. would i even need to run an amp to the 6x9s. couldnt i just get a good 2 channel amp and run the 6.5s off it and keep the 6x9s off the deck. since most of the mids and highs i hear are from the front anyway?
Swez on 05/7/2003 13:44:06
Lots of guys do that as well. There will be some rear fill there, but your rear outputs will be at least -6dB below the front speakers. If that does not bother you... then go for it.
You can test this by using the fader on your HU. Just fade the rear speaker outputs by 6-8dB and see if that sounds good to you.
Some guys delete the rear speakers entirely and run only Comps in front and subs in rear. You can test that sound mix too by fading all signals to from and none to rear deck speakers.
Swez
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 13:41:36
well, in most any system, rear fill isnt required, but i personally prefer it. The only problem with that might smaller volumes from the rear, while there is higher from the front. It is possible, but why wouldnt you want to just get a 4 channel amp? the amp suggested by swez would be a good choice and would fulfil all your power needs front and back. Another good amp choice that you could easily find off of ebay for cheap would be the MTX 4000 series 4 channel amp. 4202 is the model i believe.
it can be acquired for around $90-100.
Blitz
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 13:54:29
haha, looks like swez beat me to it, hehe, oh well, swez, arent those 4 ways a little too rich for rear fill?
Swez on 05/7/2003 17:05:03
"arent those 4 ways a little too rich for rear fill?"
Not at all there Blitz... if you mean too expensive... not @ $50.00 or so a pair.
If you mean... too much mid/highs... the car I drive is pretty heavily padded and absorbs highs easily. The added mids and tweeter in rear deck fill in the ambience void I had when using the OEM midbass drivers. Plus, the highs are defused a bit, as it bounces off the rear window. So in all, works for me.
I bought these before I got the subs etc and when I installed them... it was like.... wow, good bass, solid mids and decent highs in the rear channel too. The only thing missing, were deep lows below 60 Hz.
After doing some research and looking around, I found a JBL amp and subs, made a seal box and Viola... now we got bass and mids/highs in the entire cabin. I prefer rear fills as well. Almost as good as SS 5.1 stuff at much lower price.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 17:33:17
i dont think id ever buy another mtx amp X. i have the mtx thunder 403 right now just sittin. its a 4 channel 325 amp i think. but it overheats in less than a half hour. i would overheat just runnin my mtx 6x9s and mtx 4x6s off it. i took the bottom plate off and it smelled fine and everything it would just shut off all the time, so i kinda want something with fans in it just in case but maybe there was just sumtin wrong with that amp.
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 17:38:39
thunder 304 my bad
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 20:45:51
well, i had the mtx 6152 running my 3 JL 10w0s for a few months and it got a little warm, but not too much, im thinkin that amp is a little older. but the new 4244 4 channel should do well. I like MTx newer amps, they did my subs well until i sold it to some kid for 200 bucks
hehe
110 bucks profit isnt too bad :)
and by too rich, i meant too much mids/highs, not too expensive, hehe, I wouldnt be talkin about expensive speakers, cuz i have some CDT Cambria components in my other car :) nice stuff, i love it.
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 21:50:40
lol i might not be needing anything for my stereo, the trans went out of my car today. hopefully a good flush and filter change will help her out, but more than likey not. POS car. i talk to an alternator rebuilder and he said i could my current alt upgraded to 200 amps for aroud 150 dollars.
Swez on 05/8/2003 06:39:08
Having tranny troubles... that sucks! Older car though and things don't last forever. Might be a simple matter or costly. Can always try a good "bone yard" for used tranny. The hard part is getting the old one out and the new one in. Lots of labor involved.
In fact, it may be cheaper in the long run to sell the car for parts and get something else, if you have more than 150,000 miles on it. That car cannot be worth very much by now if a 1988 model. Think it over before you throw $1200.00 into a tranny transplant when the car street value is probably less than $900.00 in running condition.
Swez
PS That $150.00 upgrade to get 200A is not a bad deal. A new one at that rating could set you back over $300.00
compvr15s on 05/9/2003 16:56:25
got my crossovers for my 6.5s today, hooked up the audiobahn woofer to the woofer section, and the mb quart tweets to the tweeter section, made a great change in sound, plus them audiobahn woofers have a build in filter for its tweets so i just ran the audiobanh tweets off the woofer termal, sounds great. cant wait to get an amp. got another tranny now, just need to install it, hopefully by the end of may. thanx alot guys for all the help
xplicitblitzboi on 05/9/2003 18:30:26
No problem comp, thats what were here for :) Im glad your happy with your setup. I finally got a new HU today. I didnt have too much cash onhand though, so i got the JVC Arsenal KD-SX8350
I was mostly lookin for the 4v outs for under 200 so this was nice, it also has front mp3 input so i can hook up my mp3 player up to it, that should be nice. anyways, good luck with that tranny, thats cool that u got a new one. :)
YEAH I BEAT SWEZ ONCE!!!!!! hahahaha
xplicitblitzboi on 05/9/2003 18:50:32
too bad its not an answer to a question though :-\ lol, oh well, i still beat u swez!!!
Swez on 05/10/2003 05:49:03
We are not in competition here Blitz.... this is a collaborative event, not a head to head race... hehe
Happy birthday and enjoy the JVC HU.
CompVR: Glad to hear you got your Bahns in and running. If you have no need for rear fills, can still use that USX 4 chanel and bridge the amp to a 2 channel version for more output power to your Bahns.
If you ever change your mind and elect to install rear channel speakers later, you'll have the amp channels to do so.
Good luck on installing the tranny... no fun at all.... unless you are a motorhead and have the tools and know how. Do you have to pull the engine and transmission here?
I did 1 trans job on a 1980 Datsun 310 Coupe. The tranny was tough to get out, but was a 5 speed stick, so much easier to repair than automatics. I blew the main gear set one night, racing a BMW. Had the Beemer in my rearview mirror until I banged 2nd gear and the shift fork broke... dumb huh... well, I was much younger than.
Rebuilt the whole thing with my Dad... lucky I got the parts so fast... only took 1 weekend to do the whole job... learned a very valuable lesson too... never invite Dad into the job... he really ragged on me for this one... but he was a great help in sorting out the disassembly and reassembly stages of the rebuild. Guess I did earn the a$$ chewing though... hehe
That trans lasted another 75,000 miles w/o a problem. Donated the car at 136,000 miles to my Church.
Live and learn, :~)
Swez
compvr15s on 05/12/2003 01:27:00
well fortunatly i dont have to pull the motor, i can just hook it up to a cherry picker and actually lower the motor and unhook the trans and pull it out the bottom. shop said it takes them about 7 or 8 hours so i figure with my brother and my dads help we can do it in 3 or4, both are excellent mechanics and my bro put the trans in that in now so he remembers most of the stuff i think, but i also have an oil leak so i kinda want to pull the motor and fix it or just replace it.
Swez on 05/12/2003 09:49:18
Know of 4 good ways to fix oil leaks:
1. Pull the engine and go through a whole gasket and timing chain kit
(if needed)
2. Check front & real seals for leaks and replace as needed
3. Oil pan leak... usually have to lift or pull the engine/trans anyway
4. Add more oil and mayby try some "stop leak" to rehadb dried out seals and gaskets
Have fun!
Swez
Replies (24)
Swez on 05/5/2003 15:50:38
Most HU's have 15-27 watts (RMS) of power per channel. Not too bad if you have very efficient speakers. A Factory HU will give most cars ~90-95dB of SPL to mids and highs.
If you have a larger sub system installed, additional amping power is always a good option to balance out the mix. Depending on how loud you want the entire system to play (and how much power your intereior speakers can handle) I use roughly an 8:1 ratio ... meaning 800 watts subs, 100 watts to interior speakers per channel.
The other aspect of good balanced SQ system, is to match interior out SPL to subs. Say you target 110dB full range (that's pretty loud) would need 128 watts/channel interiors . (assuming 89dB ref @ 1 watt/1 meter) Cut that by 50%, (64 watts) you'll get 107dB... still very loud. Get the picture?
Say more about your system and we can have a look at the big picture.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/5/2003 23:17:51
for my interior speakers i have mtx 6x9s, 3 way(50w rms), and audiobahn 6.5s(90w rms) the ones with the removable tweeters. i also have a set of mtx 4x6s and alpine 6.5 fullrange that im not using. 2 kicker kx 600.1 amps and 2 kicker comp vr 15s(500w rms) im runnin them at 4ohms one 15 to one amp and the other 15 to the other amp. would be better to run both off just one amp but i dont wnat the other amp to just sit around. i was planning on getting the usx4065 4 channel amp 65x4 rms at 4 ohms. for them 4x6s and the alpine 6.5s should i run them off my deck and then run the 6x9s and the audiobahn 6.5s off that 4 channel amp, i have a set of crossovers on the way for the audiobahns. any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
compvr15s on 05/5/2003 23:38:26
i guess what im tryin to say is, will this new amp allow me to run my speakers louder with out distorting them, and if so can ya please explain to me if ya dont mind. i dont want to waiste anymore money on this system, i started off just buyin everything cuz i was just going by what ppl told me, so now i got a 400 dollar amp and 2 sets of speakers and like 4 subwoofer boxes laying around.
Swez on 05/6/2003 05:39:42
OK, see your dilema... let's see if we can make some sense of all this extra gear you have now. And yes, a good 4 channel will deliver more power and much less distortion to your mid/tweets.
The Kicker amps are 600 RMS @ 2 ohms per each. The Comp VR 15's ... I believe, are DVC's.. 2/8 per sub. Your greatest output will be wiring each sun in parallel for a 2 ohms load to each amp. (have ~1200 RMS sub power here) That's a lot of bass power!
Now, to keep up with all that bass action (~140dB SPL?) will need some pretty potent interior amps and speakers or do a better job in this balancing act.
The 4x6" dash speakers are pretty much fluff (read useless) as they are really more like mid/tweets and cannot take too much bass. If you use them, I recommend filtering them HP above say 200 Hz. Personally, I would not use them at all... but that's a call only you can make. To many signal drivers, make for poor SQ and signal cancellations.
The Bahn 6.5's are the heart of the install in the front door panels will do a good job. Since these have removable tweeters, you can easily convert these to Component speakers (using the new crossovers) that will give very good imaging and power to your front stage. Installing the woofer section low in the door panel, and installing the tweeter in doors, at belly/chest level, aimed upward, will produce very good imaging results and good SPL with a strong amp.
For your rear stage, can use the Alpine 6.5". Not sure how much power they can take... but 50-75 watts is plenty for rear fill. If you have 6x9 holes in the rear deck, the MTX 3-ways can be substituted if that is easier for your install. However, if the Alpines sound better to you, can always make a plate and install the rounds in 6x9 holes with some carefull planning. (more on this one later) I have a few other ideas here too.
Now, for amping the interior stage, I would lean more toward the USX-4085 as you have 85 watts RMS per channel @ 4 ohms. Not much more expensive, a bit more power too. GOTO:
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
As for balancing all drivers, your amp gains are the key to this. Yes, you have a large amount of bass power available, but if you want balance, dial back on the bass amp gains a bit to match what the interior stage speakers are doing. You can always do some of this from the HU if your HU has a sub out control function.
Digest this a while before you buy any additional gear. Need more feedback from you on what you want to do here so far. Once we get all the drivers and amp selections figured out, then you can proceed with the install, adding a new 4 channel amp and then dialing it all in for best overall performance.
What kind of HU are you using now and how many RCA outs does it have?
Comments?
Swez
PS What vehicle are we talking here? (GM Blazer or something similar?)
compvr15s on 05/6/2003 17:25:14
as for the car its an '88 pontiac grand prix coupe. i have the kenwood mpv619 cd player, with 2 outputs, front and rear/sub. im not really sure what im tryin to do with the system i just want the mids and highs to be louder. would i be better to try and trade the comp vr dual 2ohm subs in for dual 4 ohms so i can run them at 2 ohms to each amp. i really dont want to upgrade my alternator so i can have much more power draw, i could get a higher cca battery if that will help. i want more towards heavy bass tho, im not really looking for sq but i still want it to sound alright, not great tho, know what i mean. im only 19 right now, give me a few year then ill go for SQ when im near deaf lol. on that 4085 amp do ya know the current draw??? the kx 600.1 are 60 amps each.
this may be a little off the path but i have a question about amps. ok on my kx600.1s im only running them at 4 ohms which might be 250 300 watts, is that pulling as much current as it would be if it was running at 2 ohms around 600 watts. does increasing the load lower the power draw or does it still draw the same amount no matter howmany ohms im running it at? thanx alot for the help
Swez on 05/6/2003 17:35:31
Lots of good questions and am glad you break them into bite size pieces.
USX-4085, think that one draws ~ 40A at full power... not a huge power hog.
OK, so you have the DVC 1/2/4 ohm subs... 4 ohms is safe for the amp and yes, ~300 RMS at full power and will draw 60A each max, when you press them. If you have plenty of clean bass now, stay where you are with present subs. If you went to 4 ohm DVC's, would pick up ~+5-6 dB more bass. Up to you.
Your Car, probably a 105 or 120A alt here... so my guessm you are pretty close to your electrical limits now... when you push the subs. Do your lights dim at night on big bass hits? If not, you are pretty close to that coming into play if you add a 3rd amp.
You can try bumping up the batter amps rating... +800 CCA or more will help... but since this is a GM model, can easily upgrade to a larger output ALT w/o breaking the bank. A good WalMart Interstate BAT will run about $75.00
A quick call to a good autoparts dealer or two, should give a good ballpark price on a 140 - 165A version ALT. In most cases, these are the same form, fit as what you have now. A good rebuilt will be much cheaper than new and they usually come with lifetime warranty now... so not a bad option here.
The last 105 I bought was $66.00 rebuilt, I did get a 120 for my car... was under $100.00 but I was on the road when it failed and paid more than local parts stores would have charged here. My guess, a 140A rebuilt will be ~$125.00, maybe a tad less.
Also, you may want to seriously consider upgrading the ALT/BAT and BAT/GND wires to #4 gage. Stock wires are usually #6-8 gage. This will help transfer maximum current from ALT to BAT and amps.
Well, got to run...
Come back if you have more ?'s
Swez
compvr15s on 05/6/2003 20:35:50
thanx alot swez you have cleared alot of things up for me. i will check at autozone for the battery, my girlfriend works there so i get 20% discount, and also if its cheaper at a different autozone i get that price plus the 20% off. as for the alternator, the one i have now is a brand new duralast with lifetime warrenty, theres sumting i can buy and have placed in there to upgrade to 150 amps, i think i can get that done for 50 dollars, would that be ok to do or just try and find a rebuild one somewhere. the lights dim a lil bit but only when the car is in park or when im at a stop sign. as for the the battery and alt wires, can i just use stinger wire, i have bout 10 feet extra. do i just crimp the ring terminals and run it in place of the old wire? once again thanx alot:-D
Swez on 05/6/2003 22:26:06
Yes, if you have stinger wire now, just get terminal ends to match the lugs on Bat & ALT and make your own.
A 150A alt option should be adequate. Some better alts have an external diode/regulator add on kit for more output. If you can get that and boost your present alt output that way... is good! You can also change the pully diameter on the present alt to a smaller one. This will give more output at low RPM's as the alt is turning faster. Get the idea? Since your car probably has an adjustable serpentine belt and idler pully, should be OK with same belt.
I'd say you are well on your way here.
Swez
PS What are you going to use for rear fill speakers? Figured that one out yet? If you don like either the Alpines or the MTX you have now, I have a real gem 6x9's that sound very good in my car and only cost like $50.00 a pair and take 150 RMS watts RMS too. Very good midbass with these too. I was shocked when I installed them... not bad for a cheaper brand speaker.
Look here: http://www.justcarspeakers.com/
American Pro: VS1469C
4 WAY 6"X9"
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 13:24:11
i have another question. since i am unable to have passangers in my back seat due to placement of my subs. would i even need to run an amp to the 6x9s. couldnt i just get a good 2 channel amp and run the 6.5s off it and keep the 6x9s off the deck. since most of the mids and highs i hear are from the front anyway?
Swez on 05/7/2003 13:44:06
Lots of guys do that as well. There will be some rear fill there, but your rear outputs will be at least -6dB below the front speakers. If that does not bother you... then go for it.
You can test this by using the fader on your HU. Just fade the rear speaker outputs by 6-8dB and see if that sounds good to you.
Some guys delete the rear speakers entirely and run only Comps in front and subs in rear. You can test that sound mix too by fading all signals to from and none to rear deck speakers.
Swez
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 13:41:36
well, in most any system, rear fill isnt required, but i personally prefer it. The only problem with that might smaller volumes from the rear, while there is higher from the front. It is possible, but why wouldnt you want to just get a 4 channel amp? the amp suggested by swez would be a good choice and would fulfil all your power needs front and back. Another good amp choice that you could easily find off of ebay for cheap would be the MTX 4000 series 4 channel amp. 4202 is the model i believe.
it can be acquired for around $90-100.
Blitz
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 13:54:29
haha, looks like swez beat me to it, hehe, oh well, swez, arent those 4 ways a little too rich for rear fill?
Swez on 05/7/2003 17:05:03
"arent those 4 ways a little too rich for rear fill?"
Not at all there Blitz... if you mean too expensive... not @ $50.00 or so a pair.
If you mean... too much mid/highs... the car I drive is pretty heavily padded and absorbs highs easily. The added mids and tweeter in rear deck fill in the ambience void I had when using the OEM midbass drivers. Plus, the highs are defused a bit, as it bounces off the rear window. So in all, works for me.
I bought these before I got the subs etc and when I installed them... it was like.... wow, good bass, solid mids and decent highs in the rear channel too. The only thing missing, were deep lows below 60 Hz.
After doing some research and looking around, I found a JBL amp and subs, made a seal box and Viola... now we got bass and mids/highs in the entire cabin. I prefer rear fills as well. Almost as good as SS 5.1 stuff at much lower price.
Swez
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 17:33:17
i dont think id ever buy another mtx amp X. i have the mtx thunder 403 right now just sittin. its a 4 channel 325 amp i think. but it overheats in less than a half hour. i would overheat just runnin my mtx 6x9s and mtx 4x6s off it. i took the bottom plate off and it smelled fine and everything it would just shut off all the time, so i kinda want something with fans in it just in case but maybe there was just sumtin wrong with that amp.
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 17:38:39
thunder 304 my bad
xplicitblitzboi on 05/7/2003 20:45:51
well, i had the mtx 6152 running my 3 JL 10w0s for a few months and it got a little warm, but not too much, im thinkin that amp is a little older. but the new 4244 4 channel should do well. I like MTx newer amps, they did my subs well until i sold it to some kid for 200 bucks
hehe
110 bucks profit isnt too bad :)
and by too rich, i meant too much mids/highs, not too expensive, hehe, I wouldnt be talkin about expensive speakers, cuz i have some CDT Cambria components in my other car :) nice stuff, i love it.
compvr15s on 05/7/2003 21:50:40
lol i might not be needing anything for my stereo, the trans went out of my car today. hopefully a good flush and filter change will help her out, but more than likey not. POS car. i talk to an alternator rebuilder and he said i could my current alt upgraded to 200 amps for aroud 150 dollars.
Swez on 05/8/2003 06:39:08
Having tranny troubles... that sucks! Older car though and things don't last forever. Might be a simple matter or costly. Can always try a good "bone yard" for used tranny. The hard part is getting the old one out and the new one in. Lots of labor involved.
In fact, it may be cheaper in the long run to sell the car for parts and get something else, if you have more than 150,000 miles on it. That car cannot be worth very much by now if a 1988 model. Think it over before you throw $1200.00 into a tranny transplant when the car street value is probably less than $900.00 in running condition.
Swez
PS That $150.00 upgrade to get 200A is not a bad deal. A new one at that rating could set you back over $300.00
compvr15s on 05/9/2003 16:56:25
got my crossovers for my 6.5s today, hooked up the audiobahn woofer to the woofer section, and the mb quart tweets to the tweeter section, made a great change in sound, plus them audiobahn woofers have a build in filter for its tweets so i just ran the audiobanh tweets off the woofer termal, sounds great. cant wait to get an amp. got another tranny now, just need to install it, hopefully by the end of may. thanx alot guys for all the help
xplicitblitzboi on 05/9/2003 18:30:26
No problem comp, thats what were here for :) Im glad your happy with your setup. I finally got a new HU today. I didnt have too much cash onhand though, so i got the JVC Arsenal KD-SX8350
I was mostly lookin for the 4v outs for under 200 so this was nice, it also has front mp3 input so i can hook up my mp3 player up to it, that should be nice. anyways, good luck with that tranny, thats cool that u got a new one. :)
YEAH I BEAT SWEZ ONCE!!!!!! hahahaha
xplicitblitzboi on 05/9/2003 18:50:32
too bad its not an answer to a question though :-\ lol, oh well, i still beat u swez!!!
Swez on 05/10/2003 05:49:03
We are not in competition here Blitz.... this is a collaborative event, not a head to head race... hehe
Happy birthday and enjoy the JVC HU.
CompVR: Glad to hear you got your Bahns in and running. If you have no need for rear fills, can still use that USX 4 chanel and bridge the amp to a 2 channel version for more output power to your Bahns.
If you ever change your mind and elect to install rear channel speakers later, you'll have the amp channels to do so.
Good luck on installing the tranny... no fun at all.... unless you are a motorhead and have the tools and know how. Do you have to pull the engine and transmission here?
I did 1 trans job on a 1980 Datsun 310 Coupe. The tranny was tough to get out, but was a 5 speed stick, so much easier to repair than automatics. I blew the main gear set one night, racing a BMW. Had the Beemer in my rearview mirror until I banged 2nd gear and the shift fork broke... dumb huh... well, I was much younger than.
Rebuilt the whole thing with my Dad... lucky I got the parts so fast... only took 1 weekend to do the whole job... learned a very valuable lesson too... never invite Dad into the job... he really ragged on me for this one... but he was a great help in sorting out the disassembly and reassembly stages of the rebuild. Guess I did earn the a$$ chewing though... hehe
That trans lasted another 75,000 miles w/o a problem. Donated the car at 136,000 miles to my Church.
Live and learn, :~)
Swez
compvr15s on 05/12/2003 01:27:00
well fortunatly i dont have to pull the motor, i can just hook it up to a cherry picker and actually lower the motor and unhook the trans and pull it out the bottom. shop said it takes them about 7 or 8 hours so i figure with my brother and my dads help we can do it in 3 or4, both are excellent mechanics and my bro put the trans in that in now so he remembers most of the stuff i think, but i also have an oil leak so i kinda want to pull the motor and fix it or just replace it.
Swez on 05/12/2003 09:49:18
Know of 4 good ways to fix oil leaks:
1. Pull the engine and go through a whole gasket and timing chain kit
(if needed)
2. Check front & real seals for leaks and replace as needed
3. Oil pan leak... usually have to lift or pull the engine/trans anyway
4. Add more oil and mayby try some "stop leak" to rehadb dried out seals and gaskets
Have fun!
Swez
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