See what you think about this. (anybody)
I had all of this in a old post but want to change up a few things.
First of all I am running a pair of Kicker 6x9 2-way coax in the front doors with a pair of Kicker R19 tweeters mounted in the molding between the roof and the front dash. Also, have a set of Kicker 5.25 2-way coax with a set of lanzar tweeters mounted hi in the back doors. Sounds ok but I am looking to replace the 6x9 and 5.25 with some better midbass speakers. The subs include 2 10w3v2 under the rear seat and a 15w? singel 4 ohm voice coil in a 2cu^ sealed box (little small for that sub). The 2 10's are running at 1 ohm off of a z1000d. The 15 is running off of another z1000d at 4 ohm. I am wanthing to replace this 15 as well.
So, can anybody make some suggestions on some mids that will go good with the 10's. I want to upgrade the 15 to a 15w3v2. This should get alot more power out of the 2nd z1000d. as of now only getting around 125 watts rms to it. So when I upgrade I should be able to put the full 500rms to the new 15. Oh yea both the sub boxes are sealed if that will help with choosing some good mid bass drivers. I do have two seperate amps for the front and rear speakers. 2 zx4000 , should be 200w x 2.
I am considering setting up a pair of 8" drivers in the rear doors??
I am going for mostly sq on this. I want everything super tight with the exception of the 15. i dont mind if it gets a little boomy. Some poss mids include the Adire Koda componet set, looking at the PG titanium 3-way set as well. when I stat to push the hi end I want something that wont distort or burn.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. would also like to thank you all for the help in my previous post.
I have thought about upgrading my elec system and I think I will put a ho altermator and a deep cycle battery. I can push it now and get very little light dimming or any of that. Dont think I will get into too many problems with it for now.
2002 dodge quadcab 4x4 2500
Replies (8)
cplkittle on 02/4/2004 21:27:45
The easiest and cheapest midbass solution is to use an 8 or 10 sub and run it on full pass off of a small amplifier. you will be surprised how high these speakers can pick up.
quad12vs on 02/4/2004 21:44:40
I am really wanting to put a pair of 8's in the rear or front doors. I do have crossovers for both sets of my tweets so I wont have a problem running 2 ohm stereo throught all 4 channels. ie.. a tweeter with a 8 wired to 2 ohm in each door. How would that sound, a componet set of a tweeter and a 8". Just when I get everything set where it really hits hard and tight the rear 5.25 start to break down. I can actually hear the cones hitting while the rest of the system sound really good. I scared me at first because I thought I was pushing the rear 10's too hard.
I have not had a good experience with Kicker amps but the 6x9's and the r19's i will have to admit sound pretty good. I am looking at Kickers 8" midbass driver to put in the rear doors. I will be ditching the lanzar tweets and putting another set of r19's in the rear of the cab.
Do you think I am going overboard with this midbass stuff. I am very satisfied with the subwoofer end. Should only get better when I get the new 15 with some decent power to it. Just as happy with the r19's. Now that I think about it I think I will order a pair of 8" drivers and another set of r19's. I cant think of any reason this wont get the sound that I want.
Now, should I consider a xover or a eq network of some kind or will that be going overboard. all of this is run from a Pioneer DEH-P8500mp.
Thanks for the reply.
erikcooper on 02/5/2004 00:23:12
In all honesty if you got a good 15 to run low bass notes you could keep the 10s you have now as mid bass and keep the coax and 5.25s as a low treble, tweets as highs. That may sound good if you can cross it all over...
cplkittle on 02/5/2004 10:18:36
I read on a couple of these posts, and I don't remember who they were, asking about using 10's and 12's for midbass. I had heard of it before, but never personally tried it. So I dug around and found an old MTX 10" road thunder in a ported box (prob 1.25cu ft) I hooked it up without any filter, and BAM! it blew up!.. just kidding
for real, I got a very nice filler from the highs my 12's wouldn't reach and the lows my 5 1/2's didn't pick up real well.. guessing from 150Hz to 500Hz. The sound was great!! not quite top notch audiophile sound, but it made a huge difference. Definitely a nice flat even sound and volume across the entire spectrum. voice, lead guitar, keyboards, all of that came alive with one dusty old school 10" sub.
The only drawback with adding subs over let's say 3 or more all of different sizes, is that you will start to encounter some sound cancellation on the lower end. This is something I have not experimented much with, and since you can't see soundwaves, it is hard to determine where and how the waves conflict with each other. 6" or 8" subs in the back doors should provide the best midbass fill without conflicting too much with the subs in the rear of the vehicle.
uochronos on 02/5/2004 17:20:44
i dont know how much your looking to spend but i personaly am going to get a couple elemental desgins 8a's 8" woofers for my mids and high bass. these run 145$ each sort of spendy but from the specs i read they go up real high and can still get down to the subs and should match it up pretty good. these also can take as little as 150-watts rms up to 400watts rms... they could problay go all the way down to 100watts rms in a ported box.
swez on 02/6/2004 13:30:51
Obviously, the 5/4" speakers cannot handle much power or bass. Here a crossover (passive) 12dB/octave in the 250 Hz., range makes a lot of sense. Most 5/4's cannot reproduce low bass well at higher SPL levels as they tend to bottom out. Bass blocker filtering (or an active filtering pre-amp) should help with that. Your 6x9's can do 60 Hz well, but may want to run them up a bit higher as well... 100 - 250 Hz or so for bass cutoff.
As for good midbass drivers, yes... a pair of 8's or 10's will do fine in the 60-250 Hz range. However, these will be much louder at 250 Hz and up and the mix may sound a bit muddy without filtering or a good EQ setup.
As for bass, the single 15" sub in a well designed box shoud give you plenty of deep bass SPL. Here, the sub should be operated in the 35-60 Hz., range. The MB drivers pick up from there (60 - 250 Hz.) and the mid/tweeters (5/4's and x9's) will do the rest above say 250 - 20,000 Hz.
The key to managing all those frequencies and speakers for well balanced SQ, would be a DSP/EQ with full range, MB, sub outs. A good 10 band EQ can really clean up the mess (muddy or poor definition sound) when you learn how to use it.
Lastly, you have to be careful on your overlapping frequency bands with all these speakers. Phase cancellation and out of phase signals can ruin your sound stage performance, if it is not well planned out.
What say you?
Swez
quad12vs on 02/7/2004 20:19:04
ok, I can see it is going to take some time and planning to get the hi and mids set up properly. Can I use the amp x-overs to set everything up? Here is what I am thinking of:
Amp 1 (HF zx4000) - FL (R19 + k6x9) 2 ohm @ 200rms
FR (R19 + k6x9) 2 ohm @ 200rms
run at full range with the deck bass eq at 100 Hz
Amp 2 (HF zx4000) - FL kick panel (R19 + K5.25) 2ohm @ 200rms
FR kick panel (R19 + K5.25) 2ohm @ 200rms
deck at 100 Hz and set the amp x-over to Hi Pass
Amp 3 (KX 600.4) - RL (Kmb 8") bridged to 4 ohm @150rms
RR (Kmb 8") bridged to 4 ohm @ 150rms
now the deck will still be @ 100 Hz so this may be the bottelneck, or do I need to run the deck flat and set the amp x-overs?
Amp 4 (Z1000D) - 2 10w3v2 in a sealed box under rear seat wired for 1 ohm @ 1000w (500rms)
Amp 4 (z1000d) - 1 15 @ 1 ohm wired for 1 ohm @ 1000w (500rms)
This is the other bottelneck - All I can seem to find in a 15" 2 ohm dvc (1000w peak, 500w rms) sub is a Alpine type R, Kicker L7 and maybe a Kove. I did send RE a email for a HC or a XXX. Also looked at the Brahms. Looked @ the specs on the new 15w3v2 and waiting for a price on that. If anybody can think of any other 15's (under 300) I would apprecate it.
Think this can be done or do i need to look into getting a eq?
Thanks
quad12vs on 02/7/2004 20:27:43
The second amp 4 should be Amp 5.
I had all of this in a old post but want to change up a few things.
First of all I am running a pair of Kicker 6x9 2-way coax in the front doors with a pair of Kicker R19 tweeters mounted in the molding between the roof and the front dash. Also, have a set of Kicker 5.25 2-way coax with a set of lanzar tweeters mounted hi in the back doors. Sounds ok but I am looking to replace the 6x9 and 5.25 with some better midbass speakers. The subs include 2 10w3v2 under the rear seat and a 15w? singel 4 ohm voice coil in a 2cu^ sealed box (little small for that sub). The 2 10's are running at 1 ohm off of a z1000d. The 15 is running off of another z1000d at 4 ohm. I am wanthing to replace this 15 as well.
So, can anybody make some suggestions on some mids that will go good with the 10's. I want to upgrade the 15 to a 15w3v2. This should get alot more power out of the 2nd z1000d. as of now only getting around 125 watts rms to it. So when I upgrade I should be able to put the full 500rms to the new 15. Oh yea both the sub boxes are sealed if that will help with choosing some good mid bass drivers. I do have two seperate amps for the front and rear speakers. 2 zx4000 , should be 200w x 2.
I am considering setting up a pair of 8" drivers in the rear doors??
I am going for mostly sq on this. I want everything super tight with the exception of the 15. i dont mind if it gets a little boomy. Some poss mids include the Adire Koda componet set, looking at the PG titanium 3-way set as well. when I stat to push the hi end I want something that wont distort or burn.
Any and all suggestions will be appreciated. would also like to thank you all for the help in my previous post.
I have thought about upgrading my elec system and I think I will put a ho altermator and a deep cycle battery. I can push it now and get very little light dimming or any of that. Dont think I will get into too many problems with it for now.
2002 dodge quadcab 4x4 2500
Replies (8)
cplkittle on 02/4/2004 21:27:45
The easiest and cheapest midbass solution is to use an 8 or 10 sub and run it on full pass off of a small amplifier. you will be surprised how high these speakers can pick up.
quad12vs on 02/4/2004 21:44:40
I am really wanting to put a pair of 8's in the rear or front doors. I do have crossovers for both sets of my tweets so I wont have a problem running 2 ohm stereo throught all 4 channels. ie.. a tweeter with a 8 wired to 2 ohm in each door. How would that sound, a componet set of a tweeter and a 8". Just when I get everything set where it really hits hard and tight the rear 5.25 start to break down. I can actually hear the cones hitting while the rest of the system sound really good. I scared me at first because I thought I was pushing the rear 10's too hard.
I have not had a good experience with Kicker amps but the 6x9's and the r19's i will have to admit sound pretty good. I am looking at Kickers 8" midbass driver to put in the rear doors. I will be ditching the lanzar tweets and putting another set of r19's in the rear of the cab.
Do you think I am going overboard with this midbass stuff. I am very satisfied with the subwoofer end. Should only get better when I get the new 15 with some decent power to it. Just as happy with the r19's. Now that I think about it I think I will order a pair of 8" drivers and another set of r19's. I cant think of any reason this wont get the sound that I want.
Now, should I consider a xover or a eq network of some kind or will that be going overboard. all of this is run from a Pioneer DEH-P8500mp.
Thanks for the reply.
erikcooper on 02/5/2004 00:23:12
In all honesty if you got a good 15 to run low bass notes you could keep the 10s you have now as mid bass and keep the coax and 5.25s as a low treble, tweets as highs. That may sound good if you can cross it all over...
cplkittle on 02/5/2004 10:18:36
I read on a couple of these posts, and I don't remember who they were, asking about using 10's and 12's for midbass. I had heard of it before, but never personally tried it. So I dug around and found an old MTX 10" road thunder in a ported box (prob 1.25cu ft) I hooked it up without any filter, and BAM! it blew up!.. just kidding
for real, I got a very nice filler from the highs my 12's wouldn't reach and the lows my 5 1/2's didn't pick up real well.. guessing from 150Hz to 500Hz. The sound was great!! not quite top notch audiophile sound, but it made a huge difference. Definitely a nice flat even sound and volume across the entire spectrum. voice, lead guitar, keyboards, all of that came alive with one dusty old school 10" sub.
The only drawback with adding subs over let's say 3 or more all of different sizes, is that you will start to encounter some sound cancellation on the lower end. This is something I have not experimented much with, and since you can't see soundwaves, it is hard to determine where and how the waves conflict with each other. 6" or 8" subs in the back doors should provide the best midbass fill without conflicting too much with the subs in the rear of the vehicle.
uochronos on 02/5/2004 17:20:44
i dont know how much your looking to spend but i personaly am going to get a couple elemental desgins 8a's 8" woofers for my mids and high bass. these run 145$ each sort of spendy but from the specs i read they go up real high and can still get down to the subs and should match it up pretty good. these also can take as little as 150-watts rms up to 400watts rms... they could problay go all the way down to 100watts rms in a ported box.
swez on 02/6/2004 13:30:51
Obviously, the 5/4" speakers cannot handle much power or bass. Here a crossover (passive) 12dB/octave in the 250 Hz., range makes a lot of sense. Most 5/4's cannot reproduce low bass well at higher SPL levels as they tend to bottom out. Bass blocker filtering (or an active filtering pre-amp) should help with that. Your 6x9's can do 60 Hz well, but may want to run them up a bit higher as well... 100 - 250 Hz or so for bass cutoff.
As for good midbass drivers, yes... a pair of 8's or 10's will do fine in the 60-250 Hz range. However, these will be much louder at 250 Hz and up and the mix may sound a bit muddy without filtering or a good EQ setup.
As for bass, the single 15" sub in a well designed box shoud give you plenty of deep bass SPL. Here, the sub should be operated in the 35-60 Hz., range. The MB drivers pick up from there (60 - 250 Hz.) and the mid/tweeters (5/4's and x9's) will do the rest above say 250 - 20,000 Hz.
The key to managing all those frequencies and speakers for well balanced SQ, would be a DSP/EQ with full range, MB, sub outs. A good 10 band EQ can really clean up the mess (muddy or poor definition sound) when you learn how to use it.
Lastly, you have to be careful on your overlapping frequency bands with all these speakers. Phase cancellation and out of phase signals can ruin your sound stage performance, if it is not well planned out.
What say you?
Swez
quad12vs on 02/7/2004 20:19:04
ok, I can see it is going to take some time and planning to get the hi and mids set up properly. Can I use the amp x-overs to set everything up? Here is what I am thinking of:
Amp 1 (HF zx4000) - FL (R19 + k6x9) 2 ohm @ 200rms
FR (R19 + k6x9) 2 ohm @ 200rms
run at full range with the deck bass eq at 100 Hz
Amp 2 (HF zx4000) - FL kick panel (R19 + K5.25) 2ohm @ 200rms
FR kick panel (R19 + K5.25) 2ohm @ 200rms
deck at 100 Hz and set the amp x-over to Hi Pass
Amp 3 (KX 600.4) - RL (Kmb 8") bridged to 4 ohm @150rms
RR (Kmb 8") bridged to 4 ohm @ 150rms
now the deck will still be @ 100 Hz so this may be the bottelneck, or do I need to run the deck flat and set the amp x-overs?
Amp 4 (Z1000D) - 2 10w3v2 in a sealed box under rear seat wired for 1 ohm @ 1000w (500rms)
Amp 4 (z1000d) - 1 15 @ 1 ohm wired for 1 ohm @ 1000w (500rms)
This is the other bottelneck - All I can seem to find in a 15" 2 ohm dvc (1000w peak, 500w rms) sub is a Alpine type R, Kicker L7 and maybe a Kove. I did send RE a email for a HC or a XXX. Also looked at the Brahms. Looked @ the specs on the new 15w3v2 and waiting for a price on that. If anybody can think of any other 15's (under 300) I would apprecate it.
Think this can be done or do i need to look into getting a eq?
Thanks
quad12vs on 02/7/2004 20:27:43
The second amp 4 should be Amp 5.
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