This is my system in my Tacoma standard (single) cab.
1 pair Pioneer TS-1680R speakers (50Wx2 RMS, 4 way)
powered by Crossfire VR-202 amp
1 10" Crossfire dB3 sub in a sealed box behind the drivers seat
powered by an Alpine MRV-T300 (30Wx2 RMS, bridged).
The head unit is an Alpine CDM-7854...
Also, i have dynamat extreme speaker kits in the doors... What should I do next? I want more bass, but it's not that important.
I was thinking either more dynamat for less road noise/better sound, a new head unit or a new amp for my sub (soon to be subs...)
Replies (12)
Munchiesyumm on 02/2/2004 23:32:11
I don't understand what you want to do here?
Also could you list the specs on the subwoofer, amplifiers, and speakers so I can get a better idea of what you have that you may want to upgrade?
fitz1465 on 02/3/2004 00:28:50
i am a dynamat fan and nothing bugs me more than cars that rattle or the system is worth more than the car...too ghetto for me.
more dynamat will help keep more bass in the vehicle but i think you will be well to do with a better amp for that sub my friend. you aren't getting more than a hundred watts from that Alpine and the Crossfire db310 is rated at 175rms. plus, your box has much to do with it also. there's not much room in a single cab tacoma, so you will probably have to stick with a sealed enclosure. ok..
get a new amp especially since you are planning to get two of these subs. i am a class D fan for subs since they don't take up much space or power and you ain't got much of that in your toyota
if you really want to push these...go with a 350 -400w@2ohm amp..this should be plenty to push these in sealed enclosures...there's enough suspension in a good sealed box to give them each about 200w.
amp recommendations....of course you'll hear JBL from someone in here...these guys are married to those amps in this forum...they are good amps....i am just happy to see some guys using smaller company equipment now and then to keep the market fair. some of these companies like Crossfire make nice stuff. they have won many competitions and i have installed a lot of their stuff.... i like it..
all 2 ohm rating
RECOMMEND:Crossfire vr300d = 300w@12.5V w/ variable 20-50Hz subsonic filter: important with vented enclosure
OTHERS:14.4V
Sony XM-D400P5 = 400w
MTX Thunder421D = 420w
Rockford Power 351M = 350w
Alpine MRP-M350 = 350w
remember, power ratings aren't everything but performance IS.
cgorman68 on 02/3/2004 02:13:19
Can you explain the difference between Class A/B amps and Class D? For example, what's the difference between the Crossfire VR302 and the Crossfire VR300d?
cgorman68 on 02/3/2004 02:37:22
Sorry to clutter the post, but will dampening the sub box do anything? I heard something like polypropolene or... something. Makes the sub "think" the box is bigger.
cplkittle on 02/3/2004 10:47:14
Polyfill or fiberglass is used mostly for filler. It does alter the acoustical properties of the box slightly. Making the sub think it is in a bigger box means that it eliminates backwaves and standing waves that can sometimes bounce back against the speaker cone causing it to experience uneven resistance in some areas of the cone. This will dirty up the sound of the subwoofer. A larger box gives the soundwaves more time to dissipate and therefore this is not as much a problem.
Class AB amplifiers are designed for higher frequencies, but the trade off is efficiency (up to 65% of the total power is lost through heat). Class D amplifiers generally carry over more distortion, which is not as noticeable in subs, and are up to 80% efficient.
Keep your eye on the new class 'T' amplifiers. They are new digital technology and claim to be very efficient with very little THD (Total Harmonic Distortion).
Questions such as these do not clutter a post.. This is your space here, ask away!
erikcooper on 02/3/2004 11:28:42
While fitz and cpl seem to have ti covered I want to point out an alternative to Dynamat. Try out Brown Bread. It is made by a company called B-Quiet and you can get it on ebay. In tests it has shown to be more effective that the most premium of Dynamat's brand(can't remember the name of it). Plus, you get 70 sq. ft. for around $140.
uochronos on 02/3/2004 22:28:29
also you might check out elemental designs for dynamat type stuff they have there own called edead and factory direct its only 60$ or 70$ mattering which version of it you go with for 60square feet. great deal
DP on 02/3/2004 22:51:57
I have also heard good things about brown bread.
So CPLKITTLE, and others, do you recomend polyfil or not?
Does it depend on the box?
Can you put the polyfil into the box very neatly so you get the "bigger box" without having the problem you metioned?
cgorman68 on 02/4/2004 02:40:47
Yeah, I've researched brown bread and it is highly recommended. I went to Speaker Works in Orange, CA (they're good apparantly) and they recommended it. I thought he was full of it at the time, but now I feel like an ass.
So here are my questions.
1) How much do I need? Is 25 sq. ft. enough for the two doors and back of the cab?
2) Do I need to do the whole door panel to get less road noise? Does doing one side do anything or do I need to do both?
3) Where do I get 'polyfill'? How is it properly installed, I heard you should put in about a pound per cubic foot. Is that 1 pound per cubic foot you already have? Or does one pound simulate one cubic foot?
Uhhh... That's it.
cplkittle on 02/4/2004 09:12:27
Honestly, I have not used polyfill much.. most of the boxes I build are bandpass, so the material on the inside soaks up some of the backwaves. As far as how much to use, I would recommend experimenting with it. Start with none, and then line all sides with it. See if you can tell a major difference. The bass should be alot smoother and softer with the polyfill, yet retain a fairly constant volume. I have read more about it than I have experimented with it.
You can buy polyfill at Wal-Mart in the craft section. It is most commonly used to fill stuffed animals. also known as polyester filling or stuffing.
erikcooper on 02/4/2004 12:47:24
To figure out how much sound damper you would need just measure the panels. I think a door is normally recommended like 3' x 4', but I could be wrong. If I am right then that is 12 sq. ft. per door. The back of the cab would be about same height but a little longer. I would recommend doing the floor and firewall as well if you are serious about keeping out sound as that is where most road and engine noise comes from.
cplkittle on 02/5/2004 10:29:40
I have seen quite a few dynamat listings on ebay. People buy a bulk kit and only use 3/4 of it then try to sell what is left for $10 or so. A pretty good buy for 25% of a $150 kit.
1 pair Pioneer TS-1680R speakers (50Wx2 RMS, 4 way)
powered by Crossfire VR-202 amp
1 10" Crossfire dB3 sub in a sealed box behind the drivers seat
powered by an Alpine MRV-T300 (30Wx2 RMS, bridged).
The head unit is an Alpine CDM-7854...
Also, i have dynamat extreme speaker kits in the doors... What should I do next? I want more bass, but it's not that important.
I was thinking either more dynamat for less road noise/better sound, a new head unit or a new amp for my sub (soon to be subs...)
Replies (12)
Munchiesyumm on 02/2/2004 23:32:11
I don't understand what you want to do here?
Also could you list the specs on the subwoofer, amplifiers, and speakers so I can get a better idea of what you have that you may want to upgrade?
fitz1465 on 02/3/2004 00:28:50
i am a dynamat fan and nothing bugs me more than cars that rattle or the system is worth more than the car...too ghetto for me.
more dynamat will help keep more bass in the vehicle but i think you will be well to do with a better amp for that sub my friend. you aren't getting more than a hundred watts from that Alpine and the Crossfire db310 is rated at 175rms. plus, your box has much to do with it also. there's not much room in a single cab tacoma, so you will probably have to stick with a sealed enclosure. ok..
get a new amp especially since you are planning to get two of these subs. i am a class D fan for subs since they don't take up much space or power and you ain't got much of that in your toyota
if you really want to push these...go with a 350 -400w@2ohm amp..this should be plenty to push these in sealed enclosures...there's enough suspension in a good sealed box to give them each about 200w.
amp recommendations....of course you'll hear JBL from someone in here...these guys are married to those amps in this forum...they are good amps....i am just happy to see some guys using smaller company equipment now and then to keep the market fair. some of these companies like Crossfire make nice stuff. they have won many competitions and i have installed a lot of their stuff.... i like it..
all 2 ohm rating
RECOMMEND:Crossfire vr300d = 300w@12.5V w/ variable 20-50Hz subsonic filter: important with vented enclosure
OTHERS:14.4V
Sony XM-D400P5 = 400w
MTX Thunder421D = 420w
Rockford Power 351M = 350w
Alpine MRP-M350 = 350w
remember, power ratings aren't everything but performance IS.
cgorman68 on 02/3/2004 02:13:19
Can you explain the difference between Class A/B amps and Class D? For example, what's the difference between the Crossfire VR302 and the Crossfire VR300d?
cgorman68 on 02/3/2004 02:37:22
Sorry to clutter the post, but will dampening the sub box do anything? I heard something like polypropolene or... something. Makes the sub "think" the box is bigger.
cplkittle on 02/3/2004 10:47:14
Polyfill or fiberglass is used mostly for filler. It does alter the acoustical properties of the box slightly. Making the sub think it is in a bigger box means that it eliminates backwaves and standing waves that can sometimes bounce back against the speaker cone causing it to experience uneven resistance in some areas of the cone. This will dirty up the sound of the subwoofer. A larger box gives the soundwaves more time to dissipate and therefore this is not as much a problem.
Class AB amplifiers are designed for higher frequencies, but the trade off is efficiency (up to 65% of the total power is lost through heat). Class D amplifiers generally carry over more distortion, which is not as noticeable in subs, and are up to 80% efficient.
Keep your eye on the new class 'T' amplifiers. They are new digital technology and claim to be very efficient with very little THD (Total Harmonic Distortion).
Questions such as these do not clutter a post.. This is your space here, ask away!
erikcooper on 02/3/2004 11:28:42
While fitz and cpl seem to have ti covered I want to point out an alternative to Dynamat. Try out Brown Bread. It is made by a company called B-Quiet and you can get it on ebay. In tests it has shown to be more effective that the most premium of Dynamat's brand(can't remember the name of it). Plus, you get 70 sq. ft. for around $140.
uochronos on 02/3/2004 22:28:29
also you might check out elemental designs for dynamat type stuff they have there own called edead and factory direct its only 60$ or 70$ mattering which version of it you go with for 60square feet. great deal
DP on 02/3/2004 22:51:57
I have also heard good things about brown bread.
So CPLKITTLE, and others, do you recomend polyfil or not?
Does it depend on the box?
Can you put the polyfil into the box very neatly so you get the "bigger box" without having the problem you metioned?
cgorman68 on 02/4/2004 02:40:47
Yeah, I've researched brown bread and it is highly recommended. I went to Speaker Works in Orange, CA (they're good apparantly) and they recommended it. I thought he was full of it at the time, but now I feel like an ass.
So here are my questions.
1) How much do I need? Is 25 sq. ft. enough for the two doors and back of the cab?
2) Do I need to do the whole door panel to get less road noise? Does doing one side do anything or do I need to do both?
3) Where do I get 'polyfill'? How is it properly installed, I heard you should put in about a pound per cubic foot. Is that 1 pound per cubic foot you already have? Or does one pound simulate one cubic foot?
Uhhh... That's it.
cplkittle on 02/4/2004 09:12:27
Honestly, I have not used polyfill much.. most of the boxes I build are bandpass, so the material on the inside soaks up some of the backwaves. As far as how much to use, I would recommend experimenting with it. Start with none, and then line all sides with it. See if you can tell a major difference. The bass should be alot smoother and softer with the polyfill, yet retain a fairly constant volume. I have read more about it than I have experimented with it.
You can buy polyfill at Wal-Mart in the craft section. It is most commonly used to fill stuffed animals. also known as polyester filling or stuffing.
erikcooper on 02/4/2004 12:47:24
To figure out how much sound damper you would need just measure the panels. I think a door is normally recommended like 3' x 4', but I could be wrong. If I am right then that is 12 sq. ft. per door. The back of the cab would be about same height but a little longer. I would recommend doing the floor and firewall as well if you are serious about keeping out sound as that is where most road and engine noise comes from.
cplkittle on 02/5/2004 10:29:40
I have seen quite a few dynamat listings on ebay. People buy a bulk kit and only use 3/4 of it then try to sell what is left for $10 or so. A pretty good buy for 25% of a $150 kit.
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