i plan to install a sony xrca600 head unit to drive 4 existing speakers. the dilemma i have is whether a sony xdp 766 DSP EQ will work with this unit. does anyone know?? the other problem i have is whether a 4 channel amp can be used to drive a new single sub (cerwin vega 10" HED DVC, 150W RMS) and 2 rear speakers if i choose? i was thinking i could run the two rear speakers on 2 of the 4 channels and use the remaining 2 channels to connect the DVC sub - either in stereo or bridge it. does anyone know if bridging the 2 channels is possible/ok to do?
Replies (11)
erikcooper on 01/21/2004 00:54:43
What is the amp?
cplkittle on 01/21/2004 09:17:05
If the amp is bridgeable, you need to look at the owners manual.
Also, you have to match up impedance (ohms)
Most amplifiers are 4ohms bridged. If your dual voice coils are 1or 4 ohms, this will be impossible to do. If they are 2ohms you can run them in series to get a 4ohm load. That is if the amplifier is only 4ohm stable bridged.. some are 2ohm.
ttocs on 01/22/2004 03:18:44
most eq/dsq's are passive, meaning they require seperate amplification. As long as all of your speakers had an amp, it should work.
kj on 01/22/2004 12:43:07
thanks guys. erik i have no amp in particular. i am considering buying a 4 (or 5) channel amp to power the sub and possibly the 2 rears speakers. in regards to this setup my main concern is the impedance as cplkittle pointed out. i think the sub can be run with the voice coils in stereo (i.e. seperately) at 4 ohms each or in parallel for a single 2 ohm load or in series for a single 8 ohm load. i would prefer the method which would give me the most power (@2ohm), but don't know if 4 channel amps in general can have a 2 ohm load on channels 3 & 4 (for the sub) while having a 4 ohm load on channels 1 & 2 (for the rear speakers). is this do-able??
as for the EQ my main concern is the connections/compatiblity. i have never heard of this EQ. i called sony tech support but got very little help. they only indicated that manuals don't say they are NOT compatible. i understand they both use a sony bus cable to connect which is the same cable used to control a sony cd changer. does anyone have experience in connecting these sony devices or in general connecting a passive EQ to a head unit, cd changer, amp & speakers?
cplkittle on 01/22/2004 16:18:15
the cd changer should feed into the stereo for processing/amplifying/distribution to proper channels. you come out of the stereo with your speaker outputs whether they be RCA or just wires and into the speaker input of the EQ. From there the EQ should be hooked up to either the speakers or an amplifier via the speaker output connections.
As far as the two ohm load on amplifiers, I have not been able to find 2ohm components (as they do not exist) so what you are getting is either 2 speakers wired at 4 ohms (stereo) or 4 speakers wired parallel at 2ohms (stereo) at the same power. Ok, that confused me a little. Basically from the front two channels, you can get a 2 or 4 speaker combination with each speaker receiving the same amount of power reguardless.
A good 5 channel amplifier is worth the money, just make sure that it is a class AB/D.
kj on 01/23/2004 11:22:13
thanks for the connection explaination cplkittle!
anyway,looks like i'm winning a bid on ebay for a kenwood KAC 745 amp...its a bridgeable 4 channel & rated @ 40 wpc...any thoughts/knowledge on this unit?
cplkittle on 01/23/2004 17:26:04
looks and sounds like a decent amp, it will brighten your mids and highs noticeably. I don't know how well it will push a sub though.
The vega you mentioned would sound great on a 200-300w amp (2ch or mono)
If you hook them up to the kenwood, listen for distortion.. if you hear any distortion from the subs, they are not getting the clean power they need. Increasing the volume on the HU with distortion from the sub will only damage the speaker.
swez on 01/24/2004 09:24:07
You may want to consider a larger RMS/ch amp for this application. The HU will generally supply ~22 watts RMS x 4 channels if you use them. Not too bad for rear fill here power wise, but if you run better Comps up front later, you'll want a tad more power in a 4 channel amp.
Also, yes, you can feed the rear channels (or fronts even better) with 1 & 2 channels, then feed your sub with the remaining 2 channels... 1 channel to each VC. (4 ohm loads to each channel will keep the amp balanced)
A better amp to consider: US Acoustics USB-4085 (USX)
See if you can find one on e-bay as these are great little amps that pack a lot of punch. Here, you'll get 85 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms. This amp is rated at 12.9 volts for full power and you'll actually get more watts if your supply voltage is 13.5 VDC or more. This is a superior amp to KAC versions and probably cost the same, if not less then a Kenwood amp.
NOTE: Kenwood overates their amps, (14.4 VDC) so you don't get as much power as noted in the specs.
Hope that helps,
Swez COFFEE
PS The Sony DSP/EQ is probably not cheap, but may not give you the performance other models can offer at similar prices. I too, have found Sony technical information GREATLY LACKING as they have something to hide... poor value. Their HU's are not bad if you can get a big discount... but their retail pricing is rediculously out of touch with market prices on higher quality units.
If Sony Techs cannot offer you much help now, how much service can you expect later if something goes south during the install? THINK about that one carefully as you choose.
kj on 01/26/2004 10:02:03
thx cplkittle & swez. looks like that kenwood amp was won by another...good thing cuz i was beginning to wonder the same thing u brought up about it swez: rated power. i looked more closely at spec sheet over wken and noticed power was rated @14.4 VDC and wondered if it was typical to rate at this voltage? guess not...anyway, thanks for the amp suggestion (us acoustics). had seen these around but wasn't familiar with them..but will probably look at next time i see it on ebay. ...the sony stuff is pretty much already set xrca 600x head unit, cdx757 cd-changer. and looks like i have won the eq unit....so i wanna get a 4 (or 5) channel amp that can run the sub but also power the rear speakers if i choose. so thanks again for your help/advice/direction/explainations!...anything extra info will be gladly welcomed too!
uochronos on 01/26/2004 13:53:26
you have to watch really closley in general what voltage the amps are rated at. alot of companies out there rate them at 14.4 or even higher. there are very few left that give you serious number. even fosgate now over rates most of there amp line... i have even heard of some companies rateing there amps at 16 or 18 volts which is just insane.
kj on 10/3/2005 20:27:59
thx again guys! wow it was a while ago that we had this discussion. & i am just now getting all the parts needed to put this system together (long story).
anyway, i now since have everything to finally put it together. so i tried to search for the thread on here, but after logging in it never showed under "my posts". ?? hmmmm.... fortunatel;y swez directed me back to this thread & hence. HERE i AM again! :)
update
i decided to get 2 amps. so the system is:
sub amp: alpine MRV100M
rear speakers amp: kenwood 529S
HU: sony XR-CA600x
EQ: sony XDP766EQ
CD: sony CDX-757MX
the dilemma i face was re-hashed in this thread:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g3667_3
essentially it boils down to the lack of 2 bus connectors on my HU. it only has one "bus ctl in". & TONITE after all this friggn time i read a tiny lettered, asterisked note toward the back of the operator's manual that this unit can not be connected to a preamp or EQ!!?!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!!?!
i absolutely dont believe this!! i had called sony before hand just to make sure & they never told me it could not!? :(
oh well, i still believe i can make this EQ work. as cplkittle explained, all i need to do is run the RCA audio outs from the HU to the EQ. then run RCA outs from EQ to my amps. the amps are already connected to the speakers.
if anyone cares to reply they can do so on this thread OR the other. since i can not run bus connections between HU & EQ wondering if the EQ will still operate without bus control?
kj
Replies (11)
erikcooper on 01/21/2004 00:54:43
What is the amp?
cplkittle on 01/21/2004 09:17:05
If the amp is bridgeable, you need to look at the owners manual.
Also, you have to match up impedance (ohms)
Most amplifiers are 4ohms bridged. If your dual voice coils are 1or 4 ohms, this will be impossible to do. If they are 2ohms you can run them in series to get a 4ohm load. That is if the amplifier is only 4ohm stable bridged.. some are 2ohm.
ttocs on 01/22/2004 03:18:44
most eq/dsq's are passive, meaning they require seperate amplification. As long as all of your speakers had an amp, it should work.
kj on 01/22/2004 12:43:07
thanks guys. erik i have no amp in particular. i am considering buying a 4 (or 5) channel amp to power the sub and possibly the 2 rears speakers. in regards to this setup my main concern is the impedance as cplkittle pointed out. i think the sub can be run with the voice coils in stereo (i.e. seperately) at 4 ohms each or in parallel for a single 2 ohm load or in series for a single 8 ohm load. i would prefer the method which would give me the most power (@2ohm), but don't know if 4 channel amps in general can have a 2 ohm load on channels 3 & 4 (for the sub) while having a 4 ohm load on channels 1 & 2 (for the rear speakers). is this do-able??
as for the EQ my main concern is the connections/compatiblity. i have never heard of this EQ. i called sony tech support but got very little help. they only indicated that manuals don't say they are NOT compatible. i understand they both use a sony bus cable to connect which is the same cable used to control a sony cd changer. does anyone have experience in connecting these sony devices or in general connecting a passive EQ to a head unit, cd changer, amp & speakers?
cplkittle on 01/22/2004 16:18:15
the cd changer should feed into the stereo for processing/amplifying/distribution to proper channels. you come out of the stereo with your speaker outputs whether they be RCA or just wires and into the speaker input of the EQ. From there the EQ should be hooked up to either the speakers or an amplifier via the speaker output connections.
As far as the two ohm load on amplifiers, I have not been able to find 2ohm components (as they do not exist) so what you are getting is either 2 speakers wired at 4 ohms (stereo) or 4 speakers wired parallel at 2ohms (stereo) at the same power. Ok, that confused me a little. Basically from the front two channels, you can get a 2 or 4 speaker combination with each speaker receiving the same amount of power reguardless.
A good 5 channel amplifier is worth the money, just make sure that it is a class AB/D.
kj on 01/23/2004 11:22:13
thanks for the connection explaination cplkittle!
anyway,looks like i'm winning a bid on ebay for a kenwood KAC 745 amp...its a bridgeable 4 channel & rated @ 40 wpc...any thoughts/knowledge on this unit?
cplkittle on 01/23/2004 17:26:04
looks and sounds like a decent amp, it will brighten your mids and highs noticeably. I don't know how well it will push a sub though.
The vega you mentioned would sound great on a 200-300w amp (2ch or mono)
If you hook them up to the kenwood, listen for distortion.. if you hear any distortion from the subs, they are not getting the clean power they need. Increasing the volume on the HU with distortion from the sub will only damage the speaker.
swez on 01/24/2004 09:24:07
You may want to consider a larger RMS/ch amp for this application. The HU will generally supply ~22 watts RMS x 4 channels if you use them. Not too bad for rear fill here power wise, but if you run better Comps up front later, you'll want a tad more power in a 4 channel amp.
Also, yes, you can feed the rear channels (or fronts even better) with 1 & 2 channels, then feed your sub with the remaining 2 channels... 1 channel to each VC. (4 ohm loads to each channel will keep the amp balanced)
A better amp to consider: US Acoustics USB-4085 (USX)
See if you can find one on e-bay as these are great little amps that pack a lot of punch. Here, you'll get 85 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms. This amp is rated at 12.9 volts for full power and you'll actually get more watts if your supply voltage is 13.5 VDC or more. This is a superior amp to KAC versions and probably cost the same, if not less then a Kenwood amp.
NOTE: Kenwood overates their amps, (14.4 VDC) so you don't get as much power as noted in the specs.
Hope that helps,
Swez COFFEE
PS The Sony DSP/EQ is probably not cheap, but may not give you the performance other models can offer at similar prices. I too, have found Sony technical information GREATLY LACKING as they have something to hide... poor value. Their HU's are not bad if you can get a big discount... but their retail pricing is rediculously out of touch with market prices on higher quality units.
If Sony Techs cannot offer you much help now, how much service can you expect later if something goes south during the install? THINK about that one carefully as you choose.
kj on 01/26/2004 10:02:03
thx cplkittle & swez. looks like that kenwood amp was won by another...good thing cuz i was beginning to wonder the same thing u brought up about it swez: rated power. i looked more closely at spec sheet over wken and noticed power was rated @14.4 VDC and wondered if it was typical to rate at this voltage? guess not...anyway, thanks for the amp suggestion (us acoustics). had seen these around but wasn't familiar with them..but will probably look at next time i see it on ebay. ...the sony stuff is pretty much already set xrca 600x head unit, cdx757 cd-changer. and looks like i have won the eq unit....so i wanna get a 4 (or 5) channel amp that can run the sub but also power the rear speakers if i choose. so thanks again for your help/advice/direction/explainations!...anything extra info will be gladly welcomed too!
uochronos on 01/26/2004 13:53:26
you have to watch really closley in general what voltage the amps are rated at. alot of companies out there rate them at 14.4 or even higher. there are very few left that give you serious number. even fosgate now over rates most of there amp line... i have even heard of some companies rateing there amps at 16 or 18 volts which is just insane.
kj on 10/3/2005 20:27:59
thx again guys! wow it was a while ago that we had this discussion. & i am just now getting all the parts needed to put this system together (long story).
anyway, i now since have everything to finally put it together. so i tried to search for the thread on here, but after logging in it never showed under "my posts". ?? hmmmm.... fortunatel;y swez directed me back to this thread & hence. HERE i AM again! :)
update
i decided to get 2 amps. so the system is:
sub amp: alpine MRV100M
rear speakers amp: kenwood 529S
HU: sony XR-CA600x
EQ: sony XDP766EQ
CD: sony CDX-757MX
the dilemma i face was re-hashed in this thread:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g3667_3
essentially it boils down to the lack of 2 bus connectors on my HU. it only has one "bus ctl in". & TONITE after all this friggn time i read a tiny lettered, asterisked note toward the back of the operator's manual that this unit can not be connected to a preamp or EQ!!?!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!!?!
i absolutely dont believe this!! i had called sony before hand just to make sure & they never told me it could not!? :(
oh well, i still believe i can make this EQ work. as cplkittle explained, all i need to do is run the RCA audio outs from the HU to the EQ. then run RCA outs from EQ to my amps. the amps are already connected to the speakers.
if anyone cares to reply they can do so on this thread OR the other. since i can not run bus connections between HU & EQ wondering if the EQ will still operate without bus control?
kj
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