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SOUND SYSTEM UPGRADE
by PHATBOYLBC
Start New Question Here -- Back to TreeI purchased four 12" Power Acoustik MOFOX subs. I will be putting them in my 2002 suburban and i have took out the 3rd seat. the subs are rated at 1350 watts a piece. at 2ohm. what size amp(s) do i need to run these?
Reply Posted: 10/13/2009 15:33:53 by: Tinker18 patience may be a virtue, but persistence to the point of success is a blessing
first, let start with the basics.
what are your plans for your installation? ported box? sealed?
this sub is the one your referring to?
http://www.buy.com/prod/power-acoustik-mofo-12-sub-woofer-1200w-rms-2400w-pmpo-power-acoustik/q/loc/111/90105940.html
i am assuming this sub is a 2ohm dvc, having trouble finding informative information about it..
4 2 ohm dvc subs wired together can yeild you a 1 ohm load on an amp, or a 4 ohm load, if using a single amp. if we split it into 2 amps with 2 subs each you have am option of a load of .05 ohms, 2 ohms, or 8 ohms.
either way if you plan on trying to put 1200 true watts rms thru even one of these subs, with any decent amp on the market, you're going to shred that paper cone on the first bass note.
the other thing to consider here is, if you decide to try for an amp that big, to push 1200w per sub, or even two 2000w amps pushing two subs a peice the drain on your electrical system with that kind of power will be substantial to say the least.
not a problem to be solved by a capacitor..
so as you can see, we need to establish a direction in which you wish to go with this system and we can further help direct you with that information in mind...
comments?
tink
Reply Posted: 10/13/2009 19:12:33 by: PHATBOYLBC Thank you. well i would like to do some custom fiberglass with ports. but im just leasrning the fiberglass process lol. i would like to save a lil money and just go with two amps. since i already have poweracoustik componets and a power acoustik BAMF running those, i would like to stay with power acuostik or SPL. The thing is , i havwe heard that power acoustiks new amps arent as good as their older ones. is theis true? and what are some suggestions with the draining of the electrical syestem? thanks onece again
Reply Posted: 10/14/2009 13:19:51 by: PHATBOYLBC AND i forgot that i have a 20 farad tsunami power cap also.
Reply Posted: 10/15/2009 11:33:41 by: swez Old Man Audio
The MOFO subs are strong and if you go ported, use 1.75 - 2.0 cf of airspace plus the sub and port displacements. If using 4 MOFO's, this is going to be a very large enclosure. (10 cf +)
Also, it would be best to use 2 subs per amp and use 2 subs per chamber and port. This will help cut your overall space needs a bit.
The Cap... since you have it, use it. Just make sure you do the Big 3 wiring upgrade and use a H.O. Alternator to power the vehicle plus all amps in the system. Most vehicles need about 50-60 amps of current to work the basics. Depending on your stock ALT/BAT system, you may be able to power the full range amp off that w/o issues. However, when running high wattage Class D sub amps, expect each amp to draw between 80-120 amperes at full output. A 300 A ALT is probably about right and they are not cheap.
As for amps to consider, the Power Acoustik BAMF-2000/1D is a good option at each sub gets ~500 watts RMS @ 1 ohm loads. (I think this amp is a little underated here) But, 500 RMS per sub is a pretty strong pairing. Here are the specs and price:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_14639_Power+Acoustik+BAMF-2000-1D+-BAMF2000-1D-.html?utm_source=froogle&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=froogle
The next series up in the BAMF line is the Power Acoustik BAMF-4000/1D. This amp boasts a 2,200 watts RMS @ 1 ohm load and is fused at 120A's. Am not sure what the rated RMS wattage is for your PA/MOFO subs, bit if close to 1000 RMS per sub, this amp would worth considering:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_14910_Power+Acoustik+BAMF-4000-1D+-BAMF40001-D-.html
Swez
You'll need 1/0 gage wire to feed the sub amps and perhaps a 2nd battery with a battery isolator kit to get the most fro the Bass Engine.Reply Posted: 10/19/2009 16:20:50 by: PHATBOYLBC Thank you. I just upgraded to an optima battery, and i am already running 0 gauge tsunami wires. I forgot to mention i had already had two 15" memphis and trashed those so thats why i went back to power acoustik. and which way should i have the subs firing for max bass? I am making a ported box out of 3/4" MDF and already took measurements and have plenty of room i am making the boxes with 2.0 cubic ft. thank you guys once again this is the first time i have done any of the chat forums and am very pleased and excitred.
Reply Posted: 10/19/2009 21:18:56 by: Am not sure what the RMS power handling of the MOFO subs are an details are hard to find on this model. Can you fill in the blanks as to what voice coils are used on these subs. (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's or model # of these subs will suffice) Knowing that info in advance, will help us to give you a solid set of amp choices and enclosure designs to consider.
Shedded a pair of Memphis 15's? That's hard to do unless the box was way off specs or the amp that drove them was not suffient in power to give them all the clean power they need. (Memphis products are top notch when the setup is dead on.
Finally, you need to do the Big 3 wiring upgrade under the hood for best power transfer to your amps. Here, 1/0 gage lines are suggested, off your Optima BAT, ground and ALT to BAT wiring. Here's how:
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g6499
Comments/questions?
SwezReply Posted: 10/19/2009 23:18:47 by: PHATBOYLBC Hello the model is mofo-122x they are 2.5" 4 layer voice coil. I kno for a fact they are 2 ohm dvc"s and the rms rating is 1350 and 2500 peak. Is that good? And the memphis were just the entry level. I had them on an old power acoustik 1920w 2 channel
Reply Posted: 10/19/2009 23:21:22 by: PHATBOYLBC Oh and my stoock alternator is 130 amps. I have a Tsunami 20 farad power cap and a Optima battery. Do I need to upgrade my alternator? thank you
Reply Posted: 10/20/2009 04:06:06 by: Good reply... these MOFO's are pretty strong critters when they need to be, but 1000 RMS per sub is more than enough. (DB Drag levels)
The stock ALT has good reserve power at higher RPM's, but at idle the speed of the ALT is under 1,000 RPM, we get about 50% of that power.
This is where a strong BAT and the CAP will help. If one is wise, keep it down as a daily driver and see how much light dimming becomes an issue and the voltage gage on your dash drops below 12.0 volts. That's likely to happen if one hammers on the bass for extended times.
If you bought 2 Power Acoustik BAMF-4000/1D amps, they draw over 100 amperes of current per amp at full power. That's a lot of juice. Depending on how long/hard the system is pushed, will determine if a H.O. ALT is needed or not.
Hope that helps,
Swez
Reply Posted: 10/20/2009 15:28:55 by: PHATBOYLBC Thanks once again. If i go with 2 of the BAMF 2000/1d, would this be enough for the subs? And would going lower on the amp help with the alternator? Thanks once again and you have been a HUGE help. What can i do to help keep this website going?
Reply Posted: 10/20/2009 17:50:42 by: PHATBOYLBC Aso i am making two boxes for them to go in. what do the dimensions need to be tomake them 4 cubic feet apice? thank you again
Reply Posted: 10/20/2009 20:34:02 by: A pair of BAMF 2000/1d's would be good and draw a lot less current too. Each sub would get about 450 watts RMS and that's a pretty good bang for your buck. (A pair of MOFO's wired for 2 ohms is best per amp)
FYI: If we double the wattage to a given sub, we pick up +3dB. If we use a 2nd sub and each sub is powered equally, we pick up +6dB more bass.
Since you are planning on 4 subs and 2 amps in port tuned enclosures, expect to hit in the low to mid 140's dB of SPL when all the tweaks are finished.
As for the box dimensions, need to know the max Height and Width you have in this vehicle. Knowing that, I can help you come up with a enclosure plan to fit in the vehicle.
Finally, CK funds are solid right now as we have advertising links to bring in adequate revenue. Click on our sponsor sites and that's how CK gets extra operating expense monies. You can donate to the CK fund or donate directly to "Old Man Audio" if you wish. Christmas is coming and a few extra bucks for my kids would be most appreciated. (Your call)
What say you?
SwezReply Posted: 10/21/2009 14:51:36 by: PHATBOYLBC Okay I have 61" (L) x48" (W) x 13 1/4" (H) I finnally used my head and figured the dimensions to make it work. The prob I'm having now is that where to put the port holes and the cutouts for the subs. The face of the box is 38" (W) x 16" (H). thank you
Reply Posted: 10/22/2009 00:44:03 by: 07chargedup what is the prince range u wanna stay at cuz u can go wit to fosgate power 1000 and it will bang those subs to death but those arent cheap u may spend upwards of 700 for both but man i love those amps run both at one ohm orion xtr1000 would work 2 of those 2 excelon kac x1r
Reply Posted: 10/22/2009 06:50:05 by: Here are the specs for the 12" MOFO's. They seem to be 1+1 DVC's and that great for the amps we have discussed already.
http://www.poweracoustik.com/SUPPORT/MANUALS/PA-MOFOWoofer.pdf
As for the enclosure specs, these subs like large ported enclosure. (2.4 cf per sub and dual ports of 3" dia and 6.75" long.
Since your "H" is limited to 13.25" in height, it appears a wedge design would work or firing up toward the roof in the cargo bay of your vehicle.
If this is a larger SUV, consider dual wedge boxes as an option and bounce the bass waves at angles that get the most form the space you have. (One pair firing more toward the front cabin area and the other pair firing toward the rear) The other option is a flat top and the subs firing up to the roof. (This is not the most desirable configuration as the bass waves tend to bounce off the roof and some of that energy will deflect back to the cones and cause cancellation issues.
Finally, it would be best that each woofer has its own air chamber and ports. That way, if one sub dies, the remaining sub will still work in the correct air space.
Comments?
Swez
PS Chargedup makes several good points about better amps to power this system. It all depends on your budget. He's right about RF, MTX and Kicker amps. They cost more, have been around a long time and all are top drawer choices.
Reply Posted: 10/23/2009 01:06:38 by: 07chargedup swez its seems like im working for those companies lol but they are so dependible and phatboylbc i know the joy of building ur own box is great but it can be a pain in the rearend my i suggest some rt boxes by orbicion a lil costly but the box and the wiring is the heart of kickin system
Reply Posted: 10/23/2009 18:22:46 by: PHATBOYLBC Ok Swez I got 2 Planet Audio bib bang amps. The model is BB2400.1 Its 3000watts max. Rms 2400W @ (1ohm) 1600W @ (2ohm) It is a mono class D amp. I bought 2 of em. Will these amps work with my MOFOX's?
Reply Posted: 10/23/2009 19:28:29 by: I would think that one of those amps would do a good job for your install. If you chose to use both, plan on a major electrical upgrade. (~160 amperes of current draw per amp here)
SwezReply Posted: 10/23/2009 21:53:45 by: PHATBOYLBC Thanks once again ima give it a try and keep yall posted
Reply Posted: 10/29/2009 23:24:53 by: PHATBOYLBC Hello once again. I have finished constructionof my boxes. which way should i face th3em to get the most SPL?
Reply Posted: 10/30/2009 14:01:23 by: It depends on the vehicle, but most guys have found the best SPL BASS when they aim the subs toward the rear bumper in the cargo area. Here, some adjustments in distance between the sub cones and the rear of the vehicle can help too.
In many PickUp installs, many find it best to build a wide sub box and fire the cones upward to the taller ceiling in the cabin area or install subs under the rear seats and fire upward or dowward for best results.
SwezReply Posted: 10/30/2009 17:28:39 by: PHATBOYLBC Im putting them in a 2002 suburban and i took out the third seat
Reply Posted: 10/30/2009 21:52:29 by: Experiment as needed with the sub placements until you find the sweet spot in this big SUV.
SwezBack to Tree
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